Does Your Responsibility to "Protect The Field" Extend Beyond Your Group?

[Golfingdad]

Here's what happened:

There was a bit of a backup on a par 3, and we pulled up behind the previous group before they hit, and waited in our carts while they teed off.  The green complex isn't visible from where we sat so we didn't see the results of any of their shots.  After they drove off, we walked out onto the tee to get ready.  The right half of the green has water in front and while we were there waiting, it was apparent that one of the guys in front of us, based on where they were all looking, just didn't quite clear the hazard.  After looking for a few minutes, and all three of them discussed it, he dropped just to the left of the hazard at that point.  We found that odd, because it's not a shaved bank or a steep bank, so it seemed unlikely to us that it would have carried over the hazard and then fallen back in.  But we also didn't see the shot, and it's not our group, and he certainly consulted with his two other group members before continuing.

We just shrugged our shoulders and let it go.  Should we have done more?  Should we have yelled at him then, or confronted him after the fact, or a third thing?  Just curious.

[saevel25]

Here's what happened:

There was a bit of a backup on a par 3, and we pulled up behind the previous group before they hit, and waited in our carts while they teed off.  The green complex isn't visible from where we sat so we didn't see the results of any of their shots.  After they drove off, we walked out onto the tee to get ready.  The right half of the green has water in front and while we were there waiting, it was apparent that one of the guys in front of us, based on where they were all looking, just didn't quite clear the hazard.  After looking for a few minutes, and all three of them discussed it, he dropped just to the left of the hazard at that point.  We found that odd, because it's not a shaved bank or a steep bank, so it seemed unlikely to us that it would have carried over the hazard and then fallen back in.  But we also didn't see the shot, and it's not our group, and he certainly consulted with his two other group members before continuing.

We just shrugged our shoulders and let it go.  Should we have done more?  Should we have yelled at him then, or confronted him after the fact, or a third thing?  Just curious.

Unless you are in a competition, don't bother. There isn't anything on the line. I am not big on forcing the rules of golf onto casual players. Basically I don't want to be a rules nazi!

[Golfingdad]

Unless you are in a competition, don't bother. There isn't anything on the line. I am not big on forcing the rules of golf onto casual players. Basically I don't want to be a rules nazi!

Sorry, I thought that was a given. Yes, we are talking about a tournament here ... I could give a rat's ass what some random group in front of me is doing in a casual round, lol!!

[jamo]

I don't know the answer. I can tell you I probably wouldn't have said something, but that's just because I tend to be non-confrontational and (to a fault, probably) want everyone to like me if I don't necessarily have all the facts. But I don't know what the "proper" thing to do it, so I'm interested to see what others say.

[Fourputt]

Unlike Saevel, I'm assuming that it is a competition, otherwise there is no reason for the question. To answer the title question, yes.  You have a responsibility to the field to ensure that any breach you are aware of is dealt with properly.

As far as the original post, I'd have to know the exact circumstances before I could give you a meaningful ruling.  If you are certain that the drop was incorrect, then you should bring it to the committee.

[Ernest Jones]

Unless you are in a competition, don't bother. There isn't anything on the line. I am not big on forcing the rules of golf onto casual players. Basically I don't want to be a rules nazi!

Pretty sure Drew is referring to a tournament setting or there is no "field" to protect. I have ZERO tournament experience so take my thoughts for what they're worth ;-) I would say that your responsibility is to protect the field regardless of groupings, after all, all groups are in the field. However, given that your group didn't see what happened and are going on assumptions I would probably have done the same thing as you unless it was feasible to boot out there in your cart and ask some questions. Definitely not worth punching anyone in the face. :w00t: :-P

[saevel25]

Sorry, I thought that was a given.  Yes, we are talking about a tournament here ... I could give a rat's ass what some random group in front of me is doing in a casual round, lol!!

If the guy hit a slice into the water then it could have entered on the left side. If the pin was right, then wouldn't that put the left side inline with the pin for the drop? I am not sure there is enough information to make a judgement call on that. Unless I witnessed the shot bounce in, and then proceed to witness them dropping incorrectly, you have every right to call them out on it.

[14ledo81]

Probably the right thing to do would be to bring it up to them or the committee.  I can't say I would have done either.  I am thinking like @jamo here.

[Golfingdad]

I don't know the answer. I can tell you I probably wouldn't have said something, but that's just because I tend to be non-confrontational and (to a fault, probably) want everyone to like me if I don't necessarily have all the facts.

This is me to a tee.

If you are certain that the drop was incorrect, then you should bring it to the committee.

We weren't certain it was incorrect ... we didn't see his previous shot at all.  It just seemed really unlikely to us that a shot could have entered the water from that angle.  I suppose he could have hit a wicked worm-burner slice to that point, but he would have had to have done it with a 7 or 8 or 9 iron because the hole was playing 155 to the pin.  And he'd have had to have hit that slice 120.  Or he could have hooked one off a tree trunk 40 yards right of the green than carromed to that point.  Again, highly unlikely, but ... we didn't see anything, so I feel like we'd have been out of line to say anything.  I certainly don't want to be "that guy."

If the guy hit a slice into the water then it could have entered on the left side. If the pin was right, then wouldn't that put the left side inline with the pin for the drop? I am not sure there is enough information to make a judgement call on that. Unless I witnessed the shot bounce in, and then proceed to witness them dropping incorrectly, you have every right to call them out on it.

Check this out: http://thegolfchannel.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/thegolfchannel14/event/thegolfchannel14221/course/oakcreekgc/aerial.htm?next=..%2F..%2Findex.htm #

Click on hole #12.  Pin was a little further back and a teeny bit further right of the "12" in the picture.  They were looking for it on the bank of the hazard just short of the green (by a yard or two) and then dropped just to the left of that.

[David in FL]

Your responsibility to protect the field is absolute and extends to anything you see. But, given that you didn't see the shot, only the result, and that you're sure that other FC's that did see the shot were consulted, I'd say that you were correct to leave it as is. I also firmly believe that karma exists in golf, and is one unforgiving bitch! ;-)

[Golfingdad]

... and that you're sure that other FC's that did see the shot were consulted ...

100% sure.  The only problem with this that kind of frightens me - and I think I've said this before - is how very little your average golfer knows of the rules.  I consider myself relatively UN-knowledgable in this regard.  (Although that might be because I'm comparing myself to you and @Fourputt ;))  I know the basics, and I'm learning more and more from you guys all the time, but overall, there is a hell of a lot more that I don't know than I do know.  Yet, it seems like in every one of these tournaments, I seem to know way more than my playing partners, like, every single time.

I'm hoping that that will get better as I move up flights (fingers crossed that actually happens) and I start playing with better and better players, but I'm not optimistic at this point.

I also firmly believe that karma exists in golf, and is one unforgiving bitch!

Ha ... agreed.  I believe it exists everywhere.

[isukgolf]

While I agree with @David in FL ... I am more like jamo ... [quote name="jamo" url="/t/75798/does-your-responsibility-to-protect-the-field-extend-beyond-your-group#post_1020227"]]I can tell you I probably wouldn't have said something, but that's just because I tend to be non-confrontational and (to a fault, probably) [/quote]

[Patch]

Based on what you said you "did not see" you did the right thing by not going any further with it. I am trying to visualize this hole. I  am probably wrong, but could this be considered a lateral water hazard?

[iacas]

Click on hole #12.  Pin was a little further back and a teeny bit further right of the "12" in the picture.  They were looking for it on the bank of the hazard just short of the green (by a yard or two) and then dropped just to the left of that.

Based on what you said you "did not see" you did the right thing by not going any further with it. I am trying to visualize this hole. I  am probably wrong, but could this be considered a lateral water hazard?

[newtogolf]

Your responsibility to protect the field is absolute and extends to anything you see. But, given that you didn't see the shot, only the result, and that you're sure that other FC's that did see the shot were consulted, I'd say that you were correct to leave it as is.

I also firmly believe that karma exists in golf, and is one unforgiving bitch!

I agree you did the right thing.  If you saw the shot go into the hazard then you would be obligated to say something.

[Gunther]

Sounds like it was discussed amongst the group and determined to be proper. The guy probably hit a slice but perhaps not as dramatic as he thought. Since you didn't see it, I believe you were right to let t lie.

[Fourputt]

Given the uncertainty in your description of the situation, I don't believe that you could have called them on anything.  I don't see enough evidence to call a foul here.  I would have to see how the ball tracked into the hazard to be able to say anything.

That said, it wouldn't be the first time I saw someone give himself the benefit a doubt that didn't actually exist.  I've assisted many players make correct drops from water hazards or obstructions when they would have incurred a penalty if left to their own devices.

[Golfingdad]

Given the uncertainty in your description of the situation, I don't believe that you could have called them on anything.  I don't see enough evidence to call a foul here.  I would have to see how the ball tracked into the hazard to be able to say anything.

That said, it wouldn't be the first time I saw someone give himself the benefit a doubt that didn't actually exist.  I've assisted many players make correct drops from water hazards or obstructions when they would have incurred a penalty if left to their own devices.

Just wanted to point out that I was only asking the question to find out what I was required to do or what I should do, not what I could do.  I'm not looking to try and call people out, but just trying to learn what I'm responsible for.