Why Don't More Good Players Use Their Iron Set Wedges?

[amac]

LOL!  I started my response and had to navigate away.  I thought I was starting all over, but apparently, both replies were attached.  Silly dope!

[cooke119]

When they came out I purchased a set of Callaway XRs irons and included the AW and SW, I really like them. But I have a Fourteen 58* lob wedge which I use and I like that club as well. I use the XR AW and SW because the gaps between the clubs is uniform. I have no trouble with either club (the AW or the SW). The SW has a 55* loft so the Fourteen 58* LW is close to the ~4* gap between clubs I want. Bottom line, I guess it is what fits your game.

[David L Yskes]

i can say for me, while i would consider myself above average at best in golf...........  i think for me in the wedge category it's all about performance, and i like my Volkey's 50 and 56*  and find they do very well...

I still bag my standard PW from my 735cm set... but i am damn good with it...

[cristphoto]

A sand and lob wedge was not available with my iron set (Titleist AP2).

[mdaugherty24]

Im using my 45*PW and 50*GW from my Titleist AP1 set with the Vokey *54 and *58 wedges. As much as I love my Vokey wedges, I would never replace my AP1 PW and GW. Those things are money!!! The GW is my favorite club in the bag, i use that dam thing in so many situations 120 yards in!

[David in FL]

As has been said, with limited exceptions, generally, the iron sets that most better players play don't offer matched wedges past the PW.

[Hardspoon]

As has been said, with limited exceptions, generally, the iron sets that most better players play don't offer matched wedges past the PW.

And - what is now called the "PW" would have been labeled a 9-iron 10 years ago...so essentially, the sets don't really have "wedges" at all.

[billchao]

And - what is now called the "PW" would have been labeled a 9-iron 10 years ago...so essentially, the sets don't really have "wedges" at all.

I have a 50° PW that I wouldn't call a wedge, either. It's not about the loft, but the design of the clubhead that makes it a wedge IMO.

[Hardspoon]

I have a 50° PW that I wouldn't call a wedge, either. It's not about the loft, but the design of the clubhead that makes it a wedge IMO.

Agreed.

This is technically off-topic, since the post asked about "good players" , but:

My set of JPX-800's came with up to a PW (44-degree).  I purchased a "real" Cleveland PW at 50 degrees, but the gapping was a bit strange and I only used it for full swings, so I replaced it with the 49-degree JPX-800 "set" GW and I'm much happier.

For me, that's where the break occurs. I only use the "set" GW and PW for full shots.  What's most important for those is that the gapping makes sense.  I then have two "real" wedges that I use for any pitches/bunker shots or anytime I need to choke down...basically, anything within the 115-yard distance that I hit the GW.

[imsys0042]

My iron set didn't offer them, iirc. But to me it always looked like the sand and lob wedges were an extension of the set and not much additional design work or engineering went into them. My first real set was a 3i-SW of Titleist DCIs. The sand wedge was just not good at all. My prior set was 4-GW and the PW was 43 degrees with a GW at 49 degrees. The gap wedge is different to me because the higher launching clubs in many sets means you can dial back loft. So for those sets they are a 3-PW just called 4-GW. As a pitching wedge the gap wedge was perfectly fine. Most GW that come with sets these days are 49/50 degrees. The ping eye 2 sand and lob wedges were pretty sweet in their day. My feeling is that you find irons that suit you and you go with them. If the set wedges match your game, they are fine. But with the variety of wedges these days it's better to find something that fits you and what you want to do with them. Not everyone uses their wedges with a lot of versatility either.

[Curt]

I have always hit my Callaway stock X-Hot A-wedge high (49 degree, I believe, but maybe 50), straight, and "drop and stop" onto the green far better than I've hit any specialty wedge that I've found and tried so far from about 100 yards.   I have never had a problem with it stopping on the green with a full shot.  The closest thing I've found to it, performance wise, is the Cleveland CBX.

Now I've been fitted into Rogue-X irons with a light stiff Recoil graphite shaft... excellent performance with the light stiff Recoil 460, which surprised me (because I'm strong lifting weights forty years and athletic...)  For Me, on all observable measurable data, including Spin, from top of bag on down...  although we didn't formally "fit" the wedges.  Now, it's a strong-lofted set, yeah yeah but it really works For Me... the PW is 41, then a AW at 46, a GW at 51, and an SW at 55... I don't have them yet, haven't bought them yet, and I have a wedge and woods fitting coming up next week.  That said, my thoughts are leaning towards the A 46 and the G 51, and possibly even the SW 55 in the Rogue X (with the correct shafts, all the other irons were spinning great)... then just have my Cleveland Smart Sole 58 wedge for sand and little pops over traps and such... 

(and maybe even a Smart Sole chipper!!!  hey, my dad is 78 years old, shoots under his age, still plays and has played for decades tournament golf, and has had an old wide-flanged Hogan 60 degree and an old Wilson or TopFlight chipper, then the rest of his set, after a two-decades or more run of winning tourneys with the same old set of Titlest irons, is now Stock Cally Apex 14 though he still carries the decades-old Titlest 3-iron for run shots, no hybrids... he says "I'd rather have my chipper than another wedge".. on the other hand, the Rogue X sole is wide, so maybe I can just dial in the 8-iron as my chipper).

I'm just thinking that since I'm not even close to as good as my dad, and do not have the time nor the burning desire to approach a 5 handicap, all I want to be happy in my golf life is to shoot around 85 or 86, and based on my experience with the X-Hot AW (compared to various iterations of Mack Daddys 2. 3. 4, Clevelands in CBX and others, and yes Titlests).. for me, I could totally see advantages to keeping same shaft and forgiving heads right on down to low in the new Rogue X wedges... look, feel, weight, forgiveness, gaps, etc.,   I don't need to bend it like Beckham to get it on the center of the green, because if I need to I can do a low run-up shot to get under obstacles instead of up and around them if needed.  I dunno.  I think I need to go down to at least the 51 GW in the Rogue X, and maybe a Cleveland CBX 54 or 56 instead of the stock Rogue X SW 55, plus my beloved Smart Sole 58...   BUT I'll know better in a week after I "finish" my fitting at Club Champion, with The Wedges Question. 

P.S. since this thread is old, but the discussion is still so relevant, I'm going to post the above here and start a new discussion "copy and paste" too, under "The Wedges Qestion and Rogue X"... probably put it in  GolfWRX discussion, too, to check out and compare responses, for fun.  Thanks for your patience if you encounter my above thoughts again in other posts.

[dennyjones]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

BUT I'll know better in a week after I "finish" my fitting at Club Champion, with The Wedges Question. 

When are you getting fitted?   Where?

[Buckeyebowman]

It's because they've found wedges that perform for them and help them score. When the next door neighbor was giving me their old Golf Magazines every issue had a breakdown of a Tour player's bag. One of them that I remember was Patrick Reed's. He carried 4 old Cleveland wedges. Everything else in his bag was shiny and new, but those wedges were all rusted up and crappy looking! But, they worked for him. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

When are you getting fitted?   Where?

Club Champion in Santa Monica, CA.  Next Friday (Nov. 30, 2018).

[dennyjones]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:30 PM, Curt said:

Club Champion in Santa Monica, CA.  Next Friday (Nov. 30, 2018).

Well tomorrow is your big day.    I had just an amazing experience at Club Champion last Monday.  I came away with sticker shock because I didn't realize the cost of a custom shaft but since I wanted what worked best for me, I splurged.   I really splurged.    I was really impressed with the guy that did the fitting and have nothing but praise for the experience.     It was a major....major eye opener to  see the difference on Trackman between the different club heads and especially the difference the shaft makes.   I'm now and forever will be a believer.  

Enjoy your experience.

Edited November 29, 2018 by dennyjones

[Curt]

On 11/29/2018 at 3:49 PM, dennyjones said:

Well tomorrow is your big day.    I had just an amazing experience at Club Champion last Monday.  I came away with sticker shock because I didn't realize the cost of a custom shaft but since I wanted what worked best for me, I splurged.   I really splurged.    I was really impressed with the guy that did the fitting and have nothing but praise for the experience.     It was a major....major eye opener to  see the difference on Trackman between the different club heads and especially the difference the shaft makes.   I'm now and forever will be a believer.  

Enjoy your experience.

Thanks dennyjones... and I too had an amazing experience at Club Champion, and here's my full report:

Club Champion Full-Bag Fitting experience:

An update...  I got a 50% off deal on a full bag fitting at Club Champion, so I went for it because I STILL had that itching sensation in the back of my head that maybe just maybe the Golf Galaxy fitting wasn't thorough enough on the irons and GG didn't do any formal fitting for me for putter, wedges, hybrids/woods, nor driver.  And... 

The results at Club Champion were enlightening, to say the least.  CAVEAT EMPTOR >> Fitting was For Me.

Here's what happened, full bag fitting, during the Club Champion fitting that took three and a half hours: we tested on Trackman Rogue X, Rogue, Ping g700, and Titlest AP1-718 in irons, with five different shaft combinations (including the Recoil 460 stiff that I had in one of the Rogue X that I already bought) in both stiff and regular... and hands down on Trackman >> the regular Rogue with a Fuji VistaPro 70 in Regular flex won For Me, on every single measure... it frankly blew away the RogueX in Recoil 460 F4-stiff that Galaxy had put me in...
(that the Rogue beat out the RogueX for me was surprising to me, but the data was blatantly obvious, and a relief in a way.  One thing Champion and Galaxy DID agree on: the Callaways beat out the Ping g700, for me, which was another surprise and another relief because the Callys are less expensive and I've played Callaways for the past five years, so at least I was on the right track with my brand)  

Best fit for wedges:  We tested the Cally Rogue, Cally MD, Titlests, and two Clevelands. Conclusion: Go down through PW and AW in the regular Rogue, then Cleveland CBX 54 and 58 ultimately fitted with the Same Fuji Shafts as the rest of the irons.  The CBX conclusion was not surprising to me and was easy for me to accept and settle.  Although I do love the SmartSole 58 that I've been using, the CBX is the better fit.  I'll relegate SmartSole to my guest bag. 

Likewise similar in thoroughness, just to finish the Club Champion experience, was the testing for hybrids and hybrids vs. fairway woods, and for driver:  Conclusion:  Callaway Rogue hybrids, Mitsubishi C6 regular flex shaft, definitely a 4 hy with a 4 and 3 combo option.  Hybrids clearly better for me than fairway woods (again, I have to stress the thoroughness of all the testing: we tried a bunch of combos, various hybrids, woods, hybrid-irons from various brands > this is what sets Club Champion apart). 
That the hybrids beat out fairway woods, For Me, and that the Rogue beat out multiple other brands, was not surprising to me, but again is allowing me now to SETTLE DOWN MY MIND and eliminate "club chatter".  What was surprising was that not only did I get ***  better distance, I also got better consistency and tighter dispersion with Regular flex *** instead of the stiff that I have been playing... this again is actually another relief, because at 56 years old I'm not getting any younger and I want to not only preserve my joints but also increase the longevity of my club selection so I don't have to go through all this again for another five or eight years; these are clubs that I can play now AND "age into them" gracefully.   

Conclusion: Driver: again, the Rogue standard (not the draw model) beat out all comers... BUT, instead of the 10.5 in stiff that I've been playing, champion was Rogue 13.5 in Regular flex Accra FX 2.0-250m3 shaft.

Conclusion: Putter: my own current gamer the Odyssey White Hot Pro #1 in 34" standard pistol grip w full shaft offset is actually pretty close... and I don't need to be in a rush, so that's another relief.  On my data, I need a heel-shafted "toe weighted" (instead of face balance) putter at 33.5" ideally a mallet with a half-shaft offset and a midsize standard grip (as opposed to something like a fat Superstroke).  We tested my Odyssey for baseline data, which was already pretty good match, good enough for gaming... but then also tested new Ping, Bertonelli, Scotty Cameron, and another Odyssey one of the new fang models...
For Me, ultimate Putter Winner: the less-expensive Ping Sigma 2 Anar Stealth black putter, 33.5", midsize pistol grip.  Another beautiful thing about the Ping Sigma is that the length is actually adjustable in 1/2-inch increments, with a simple tool.  Another relief: new Ping Sigma 2 is $200, a lot cheaper than Berts and Camerons.  Think about it: I spent $175 (half-price special) on the Club Champion fitting, but I'd save MORE than that just by going w Ping vs. Cameron putter.

Even Grips are gauged: again, For Me, it was between the Golf Pride cp2 and the Superstroke Cross-Comfort, in Midsize.  And more reliefs: both those grips are relatively durable and versatile for various playing conditions, AND I've already been playing midsize grips so I won't have to adjust for that...

Finally, I checked w my Club Champion fitter to see if was OK that I bought the clubs stock like off of Callaway Pre-owned, for example, or other sites, and then bring them in piecemeal to CC for the customizations as I can afford it, to save money... and the answer is YES, though then CC won't warranty the clubheads.  He suggested to NOT buy off ebay because of danger of counterfeit clubs, but Callaway Preowned certified clubs would be fine.  So I can collect up my Rogues as they come up, in regular flex shafts, and at bargain prices, and game them and gradually over the next half year or so get 'em reshafted and pured by CC.

So, that's my story... and I'm sticking to it.  All settled. 

[chipeacher]

High handcaper doesn't benefit from grind as much as bounce. But primary reason for custom wedge is to fill in a distance/yardage gap that reoccurs frequently at your home course.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, chipeacher said:

High handcaper doesn't benefit from grind as much as bounce. But primary reason for custom wedge is to fill in a distance/yardage gap that reoccurs frequently at your home course.

I hear you there!  The other Cleveland that was in the running -- I don't remember the model number -- was also a high-bounce model with a sole similar to that on the CBX, the "v-sole".  Could have gone either Cleveland, but the CBX were just easier to hit, so why not? 

The the way it shook out in my bag with the Rogue PW and AW then the CBXs ... with the same shafts, gapping works well we Rogue PW 44, AW 49, CBX 54, CBX 58.  

Ultimately, fitter's case for the CBX w matching shafts, as opposed to the SW and GW from the Rogue which we did consider, is the versatility of the CBX sole plus a little extra spin from the Cleveland Rotex face.  Though there was also a case to be made for just going Rogue all the way because those wedges are good, too, Versatility and spin, combined with CBX ease of use for me, put the CBX in the bag instead of the Rogues on down through, with the emphasis on CBX Versatility putting them as the winners.