Chamblee and Nobilo get technical about Tiger's swing

[Entropy]

Did anybody catch the back and forth between Brandel, Frank, and Notah yesterday after round 1 concerning Tiger's swing?  I'm not sure if I can post a link, but it was actually on yahoo's home page today.  Anyway, the Chamblee was saying Tiger's new "Foley" swing has him with way too much forward shaft lean, too steep, and as a result of so much delofting, Tiger is leaning back at impact which is the cause of his bad back.  Frank and Notah disagreed and hilarity ensued with Chamblee even betting Frank "everything that he owned" that Tiger's clubhead speed wasn't 120 mph last year.....

Personally I didn't see what Chamblee was talking about, Tiger's weight was still moving forward, I didn't see any reverse pivot action, I just saw a tour pro hitting down steeply on his irons like so many do.

[phan52]

Did anybody catch the back and forth between Brandel, Frank, and Notah yesterday after round 1 concerning Tiger's swing?  I'm not sure if I can post a link, but it was actually on yahoo's home page today.  Anyway, the Chamblee was saying Tiger's new "Foley" swing has him with way too much forward shaft lean, too steep, and as a result of so much delofting, Tiger is leaning back at impact which is the cause of his bad back.  Frank and Notah disagreed and hilarity ensued with Chamblee even betting Frank "everything that he owned" that Tiger's clubhead speed wasn't 120 mph last year.....

Personally I didn't see what Chamblee was talking about, Tiger's weight was still moving forward, I didn't see any reverse pivot action, I just saw a tour pro hitting down steeply on his irons like so many do.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/08/must-see-tv-chamblee-nobilo-sp.html

I don't know enough about the golf swing to make an assessment on the debate. But I will guess that people taking sides on the debate will fall on whether they can stand Chamblee or not. Which means nobody will agree with him.

[skydog]

I watched this live and actually agree 100% with Chamblee. Like the guy or not (I know most don't) but he honestly does understand the mechanics of the swing well and is spot on with his assessment of Tiger's swing. I like Frank Nobilo a lot but he's wrong on this one.

[ChrisP]

I think Chamblee was spot on, but that's just me. Everyone has their own opinion.

[phan52]

I watched this live and actually agree 100% with Chamblee. Like the guy or not (I know most don't) but he honestly does understand the mechanics of the swing well and is spot on with his assessment of Tiger's swing. I like Frank Nobilo a lot but he's wrong on this one.

I would be inclined to agree with Chamblee because he appeared to be making a well-thought out case. Nobilo just basically said, "well, he's hurt." I wouldn't take anything Notah has to say about it seriously, as he could never be objective about Tiger.

[saevel25]

I watched this live and actually agree 100% with Chamblee. Like the guy or not (I know most don't) but he honestly does understand the mechanics of the swing well and is spot on with his assessment of Tiger's swing. I like Frank Nobilo a lot but he's wrong on this one.

I think Chamblee was spot on, but that's just me. Everyone has their own opinion.

Is he right about too much forwards haft lean with the driver, yea. Is he right about the head moving back being harmful, I don't think so. There are many pro's who's head fall backwards with the driver, mostly to hit up on the ball. Also, what is the difference from someone who purposely sets their secondary axis tilt more than someone who just has it happen in the swing? Just saying.

[ChrisP]

Is he right about too much forwards haft lean with the driver, yea. Is he right about the head moving back being harmful, I don't think so. There are many pro's who's head fall backwards with the driver, mostly to hit up on the ball. Also, what is the difference from someone who purposely sets their secondary axis tilt more than someone who just has it happen in the swing? Just saying.

I agree with him overall about Tiger's swing being the reason for his struggles the past few weeks. I don't know about all the little technical stuff....but big picture-wise, I don't like the changes Tiger has made to his swing. Now it may be temporary to guard against the back, but like Brandel said, if it is, why did he say last week he's 100% healthy? Me personally, I would like to see him go back to Butch (even though that won't happen). I'm not a big Foley fan.

[saevel25]

I agree with him overall about Tiger's swing being the reason for his struggles the past few weeks. I don't know about all the little technical stuff....but big picture-wise, I don't like the changes Tiger has made to his swing. Now it may be temporary to guard against the back, but like Brandel said, if it is, why did he say last week he's 100% healthy?

Me personally, I would like to see him go back to Butch (even though that won't happen). I'm not a big Foley fan.

Maybe he was healthy. I have no clue how healthy he was Friday, or Saturday. All i know is Tiger took a swing from an awkward lie and tweaked his back. From previous swing changes and time off, Tiger needs his high volume of reps to get into Tiger Mode. So, if all he can play is sparingly, then I doubt he will do well.

He wont go back to Butch. Heck Butch was considering retiring until Rickie Fowler got to talking to him about changing his swing. I don't think Butch wants to deal with Tiger this late in his career.

[CarlSpackler]

Chamblee says that Tiger is "leaning back" to get the higher launch with his new position with hands further forward. He says that is the only way he can be getting a higher launch angle is by doing this, but I don't see it when watching a current recording of his swing. Does anyone see this?

[mvmac]

Chamblee says that Tiger is "leaning back" to get the higher launch with his new position with hands further forward. He says that is the only way he can be getting a higher launch angle is by doing this, but I don't see it when watching a current recording of his swing. Does anyone see this?

Depends what "leaning back" means. There are plenty of golfers that have the head go this far back with the driver and they don't have back issues.

ALL good golfers "lean back" or as we call it, have some Secondary Axis Tilt

[ChrisP]

Maybe he was healthy. I have no clue how healthy he was Friday, or Saturday. All i know is Tiger took a swing from an awkward lie and tweaked his back. From previous swing changes and time off, Tiger needs his high volume of reps to get into Tiger Mode. So, if all he can play is sparingly, then I doubt he will do well.

He wont go back to Butch. Heck Butch was considering retiring until Rickie Fowler got to talking to him about changing his swing. I don't think Butch wants to deal with Tiger this late in his career.

He's just a mess right now. His swing with his irons are pretty good and I think he can get his short game and putting game back with practice. But he needs to fix his swing on his driver. It just looks ugly. He used to come down on the back swing and attack that ball with some force. It almost looks like he's trying to scoop it in the air now. Like I said, I'm not sure if that's a result of the back or what. He said he doesn't have that explosion, but if he says his back is 100%, why isn't he letting it loose?

[jamo]

He's just a mess right now. His swing with his irons are pretty good and I think he can get his short game and putting game back with practice. But he needs to fix his swing on his driver. It just looks ugly. He used to come down on the back swing and attack that ball with some force. It almost looks like he's trying to scoop it in the air now. Like I said, I'm not sure if that's a result of the back or what. He said he doesn't have that explosion, but if he says his back is 100%, why isn't he letting it loose?

Have you ever had an injury like that? The recovery is not always physical. You can have no pain and still not be able to get over the thought that this swing is going to bring the pain back. Also, he's missing every fairway by 40 yards. I doubt "going harder" would fix anything.

[Entropy]

IMHO the debate between Chamblee and Nobilo boiled down to Chamblee saying there is a mechanical flaw in TW's current swing that is actually CAUSING TW's back problems and Nobilo basically saying that Woods ball striking is simply not up to par, the result of a lack of practice, maybe improper sequencing...a RESULT of Tiger's back problems.

Depends what "leaning back" means. There are plenty of golfers that have the head go this far back with the driver and they don't have back issues.

I guess I misinterpreted what Chamblee meant.  When I heard "lean back to get his shots in the air" I thought he was talking about a reverse pivot rather than secondary axis tilt.

[CarlSpackler]

Depends what "leaning back" means. There are plenty of golfers that have the head go this far back with the driver and they don't have back issues.  ALL good golfers "lean back" or as we call it, have some Secondary Axis Tilt  [CONTENTEMBED=/t/54115/weight-forward-and-secondary-axis-tilt layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED]  [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/103630/] [/URL]

I was looking at an iron swing I think.

[ChrisP]

Have you ever had an injury like that? The recovery is not always physical. You can have no pain and still not be able to get over the thought that this swing is going to bring the pain back.

Also, he's missing every fairway by 40 yards. I doubt "going harder" would fix anything.

I actually have. I know all about back pain problems. And I agree, I think it could be mental. I just don't know what's going through his mind. All I know is swing-wise, he's lost right now with his driver. And he needs to take a lot of time off and not back on the golf course until he's fully 100% confident in his swing...not mentally thinking about his back. If he's thinking about his back during his swing, he should not be on the course.....and he also shouldn't be telling people he's 100%, which was Chamblee's point last night.

[iacas]

I watched this live and actually agree 100% with Chamblee. Like the guy or not (I know most don't) but he honestly does understand the mechanics of the swing well and is spot on with his assessment of Tiger's swing. I like Frank Nobilo a lot but he's wrong on this one.

I've yet to see much proof of that.

Nobilo's point about how Tiger's launch angle and Tiger's hands being farther forward being at odds with another is a salient point.

And for all we know if Tiger had stuck with Butch he might have retired three years ago. Tiger wasn't 38 when he was with Butch.

[skydog]

It's obviously hard/impossible to delineate injury vs. mechanics and the chicken vs. egg argument with injuries and the foley swing.

I have never proclaimed to be a mechanical golfer (I personally think a mechanical focus ruins more swings than it helps) but I've been around the game since I could walk and like a lot of folks, know what looks right in a golf swing and what doesn't. Tiger's driver swing looks horrendous now, but it also looked bad (just not as bad) in 2013 when he was healthy. I personally think Foley has a lot to do with this. Rory and Adam Scott swing like Tiger used to and it's sad to see where Tiger is now. Yes, maybe staying with Butch would have caused problems sooner, who knows, but at best Foley isn't helping things from a physical standpoint.

I think Tiger needs to take the rest of the year off, fire Foley, and coach himself from here on out. He was born with the greatest swing the game has known and I think left to his own natural feel and talent, he can find a swing that will work for his body for the last chapter of his career.

[iacas]

I have never proclaimed to be a mechanical golfer

Good thread for you…

…I've been around the game since I could walk and like a lot of folks, know what looks right in a golf swing and what doesn't.

So do I. and Tiger's swing looks very similar to how it did last year.

I personally think Foley has a lot to do with this. Rory and Adam Scott swing like Tiger used to and it's sad to see where Tiger is now.

So according to you:

• you know golf swings
• you think Adam Scott and Rory McIlroy have similar swings

Is that about right?