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boogielicious

PGA Championship 2014: Players upset with decision to play the ball down at rain-soaked Valhalla

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  1. 1. Should players have been able to Lift, Clean, and Place in the final round of the PGA Championship?

    • No
      14
    • Yes
      6

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20 posts in this topic

From Golf.com.

LOUISVILLE (AP) --- Heavy rain at the PGA Championship brought another round of player complaints about not being allowed to lift, clean and place their golf balls in soggy conditions.

Play was halted for 1 hour, 51 minutes Sunday in the final round at Valhalla Golf Club after an inch of rain fell in about 45 minutes, creating temporary ponds and streams that had workers scrambling to squeegee water from fairways and greens. Showers also forced an hour-long delay Friday morning in the second round.

In both instances, tournament officials decided not to allow players to use preferred lies, except when a ball came to rest in standing water. That didn't sit well with some players, who struggled after play resumed.

"To me, it's fair out there if you can play the ball up," Graeme McDowell said. "The ball is picking up mud. ... Common sense has to prevail at some point. ... If they played the ball up to me, didn't matter what they did, they made the right call. It was the wrong call to play the ball down, simple."

McDowell had just bogeyed the 16th hole and was in the fairway on 17 before the stoppage. He said the deluge left "casual water everywhere."



Read more: http://www.golf.com/ap-news/graeme-mcdowell-among-those-not-happy-decision-play-ball-down#ixzz3A5TX2JKu

Opinions?  Some forum members argue they use lift-clean-and-place too much.  Others want preferred lies always!  Discuss among yourselves.

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If everyone had to play the same way then I don't see the problem.... Everyone played under the same rules so nobody had an advantage.

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I had no problem with it at all. The winning score was -16. There were a ton of great scores yesterday, after poor conditions. Lets not hand this tournament on a silver platter to everyone. They are pros and can deal with it. Everybody had to play in these conditions. There were -6, -5, and -4 yesterday from a handful of players. I think it was just fine.

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More from PGATour.com

http://www.pgatour.com/tourreport/2014/08/10/no-lift-clean-and-place-at-rain-soaked-valhalla.html

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I added the poll, and then voted "No" in it.

Players seemed to manage just fine, and it's a major. They're too pampered on the PGA Tour with LCP anyway.

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I added the poll, and then voted "No" in it. Players seemed to manage just fine, and it's a major. They're too pampered on the PGA Tour with LCP anyway.

Agreed. What is this, South Florida?

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I voted (hell) No! The scores were very low, so it's obvious that they managed just fine. It was also a major and I don't want to see guys being overly coddled in any major because we see that enough throughout the year on the PGA Tour in general.

If we had guys that were duffing and causing super-massive blasts of mud and water all over themselves, plugging balls into the fairway where only a dimple is showing, or scores that were drastically and obviously suffering as a result of the water, I'd vote and believe otherwise. With a winning score of -16, one would think that no other player who happened to struggle would open their mouth for obvious reasons.

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I have a little different take. Seemed as though Rickie got quite a few favorable casual water rulings and one where he was denied. I didn't realize before yesterday that one is allowed to clean their ball in such a circumstance. Phil, didn't get any to my knowledge. In order to make it more equitable for all, I would have preferred LCP. I'm not suggesting Rickie did anything wrong, only that I believe it would have been more equitable to the field if LCP were in play yesterday. Or perhaps, taking casual relief does not entitle one to clean the ball.
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Agreed. What is this, South Florida?

Valhalla isn't in Southern Florida, so they shouldn't play "lift, clean and place" rules

AND the horses you both rode in on....! :-P

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Everyone played under the same conditions. One player won, and the rest were losers. Majors are supposed to be more difficult. Just because the weather helps to make this one more difficult is of no consequence. Sound like a bunch of spoiled, whiny, bitchy players crying over spilt milk.

Now think about this. What if some day in the future, these spoiled, whiny, bitchy players, decide they just  won't play in unfavorable conditions during a tournament? Think this will ever happen?

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In order to make it more equitable for all, I would have preferred LCP.

The equity is "if your ball is in casual water, you get relief."

When it was, Rickie got relief. When it wasn't, he didn't.

The same rule was applied to all competitors in the same situations (like situations were treated alike), and thus, was equitable.

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AND the horses you both rode in on....!

We can forever blame that who shall not be named (just because I can't remember his handle, and I don't want to go looking for it), for this inside joke! :-D

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The equity is "if your ball is in casual water, you get relief." When it was, Rickie got relief. When it wasn't, he didn't. The same rule was applied to all competitors in the same situations (like situations were treated alike), and thus, was equitable.

Understand your point but the casual water ruling is subjective, witness his claim that he was in it and the overrule by the official. It just seemed to me he received an advantage by getting to clean his ball each time. If that weren't part of it, I'd have been fine.

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I voted yes, but Spyder is correct.  They managed to shoot some pretty damn good scores the way it was.

Bottom line for me, the rules were the same for everyone, so no need to whine about it.

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The equity is "if your ball is in casual water, you get relief."

When it was, Rickie got relief. When it wasn't, he didn't.

The same rule was applied to all competitors in the same situations (like situations were treated alike), and thus, was equitable.

I voted no - but there is a stronger argument for playing LCP, IMO, when it happens mid round and the players have no idea where to aim away from the casual water. Therefore it can add a much higher than normal amount of luck, or rub of the green, to individual players scoring chances.

And to say there is 1 winner & the rest complain ignores that there are FedEx points, Ryder Cup points and thousands of dollars at stake with each place that a player moves up or down.

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