"Correct" pace of play

[newtogolf]

@newtogolf - do you really, really think that anything under 4 hours is "speed golf"?

I play at the pace I'm comfortable with playing as long as it conforms to my clubs rules of under 4 hours.

I have no interest in running to my ball or rushing my shots to play in under 4 hours.  I've played rounds as part of a 4-some in 3.5 hours and didn't feel rushed and have played them in 4 hours and felt rushed.  A fair amount of time is lost when one guy struggles, hits a few balls in the woods, thins a few and / or chunks a few.  When two or more struggle it can be difficult to keep the 4 hour pace for everyone.

As I stated, if there's room in front of my group and another group wants to play through I'll happily wave them through, if they opt not to, I'm not going to rush to appease them.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

@newtogolf - do you really, really think that anything under 4 hours is "speed golf"?

I play at the pace I'm comfortable with playing as long as it conforms to my clubs rules of under 4 hours.

I have no interest in running to my ball or rushing my shots to play in under 4 hours.  I've played rounds as part of a 4-some in 3.5 hours and didn't feel rushed and have played them in 4 hours and felt rushed.  A fair amount of time is lost when one guy struggles, hits a few balls in the woods, thins a few and / or chunks a few.  When two or more struggle it can be difficult to keep the 4 hour pace for everyone.

As I stated, if there's room in front of my group and another group wants to play through I'll happily wave them through, if they opt not to, I'm not going to rush to appease them.

I tend to agree.  The way a round "feels" can change from day to day.  I've had 4 hour rounds that felt slow and 4:30 rounds that felt fast.  I've played comfortably in 3:55 in a fivesome, but I've been paired as a single with a twosome that played at least a 4:30 pace.  I took off and left them on the 7th hole after a two hole gap was open ahead of us.  I finished 18 following a couple of foursomes as they finished 12.

The way I usually see it is, if I'm being pressed from behind with even a small gap (less than 1/2 hole), I feel rushed, but if my group is keeping up, I'm quite comfortable no matter how fast we are actually playing.  I'm a fast player myself, but when I have to wait a lot on the guys I'm playing with, then I feel bad about making the group behind us wait, even though I know that I'm not the problem.  That leads to me trying to be even faster than I normally am, and that rarely works well.  It's the same feeling I have when I'm trying to play through a group - I always feel rushed for the rest of that hole, even though the group I'm passing is the one that's causing the problem.

[newtogolf]

I tend to agree.  The way a round "feels" can change from day to day.  I've had 4 hour rounds that felt slow and 4:30 rounds that felt fast.  I've played comfortably in 3:55 in a fivesome, but I've been paired as a single with a twosome that played at least a 4:30 pace.  I took off and left them on the 7th hole after a two hole gap was open ahead of us.  I finished 18 following a couple of foursomes as they finished 12.

The way I usually see it is, if I'm being pressed from behind with even a small gap (less than 1/2 hole), I feel rushed, but if my group is keeping up, I'm quite comfortable no matter how fast we are actually playing.  I'm a fast player myself, but when I have to wait a lot on the guys I'm playing with, then I feel bad about making the group behind us wait, even though I know that I'm not the problem.  That leads to me trying to be even faster than I normally am, and that rarely works well.  It's the same feeling I have when I'm trying to play through a group - I always feel rushed for the rest of that hole, even though the group I'm passing is the one that's causing the problem.

You summed up how I feel many times.  I'm keeping pace but other guys are slowing us down.  I don't want to be the guy running to his ball, rushing his shot, not lining up a putt and ruining my game to compensate for the slow play of others in my group.

One guy that's a usual part of our 4-some and a great guy insists on taking 3 - 4 practice swings on every shot.  When we're being pressured it's painful to watch him waste valuable time that we have to keep pace but that's his pre-shot routine and we can't break him of it.  Every time we try to get him to take just one practice swing he'll shank the shot and blame us for making him deviate from his routine.  I play ready golf, I don't take a practice swing, I line up my shot, walk up and swing, even on putts so I don't feel there's anything more I can do without impacting my game.

All that said we've never finished in over 4:15 nor been warned for slow play by the starter so I feel we're playing within the club guidelines, even if to some here it's too slow.

[Big C]

The continuum for SoCal municipal golf (note: this probably applies to other metro areas like NYC as well)

4:30 round - Good solid pace, a few minutes of waiting here and there but nothing to take me out of rhythm. I am pleasantly surprised

4:15 round - Wow, we finished pretty quickly. I waited on a couple of the par 3's, but that's about it. Looks like I have time for a beer in the clubhouse

4:00 round - Holy smokes, why is this course so open? Was there an earthquake and I just missed it? This is awesome, I wish it could be like this every round!

3:45 round or less - "Speed golf". Either you have the first or second tee time of the day, or you ain't getting around in under 3:45.

On the other end of the spectrum

4:45 round - Decent pace. Waited on several holes, but nothing significant. Had a few beers and cracked some jokes with my playing partners on the tee box.

5:00 round - Waiting on most holes. Starting to feel slow. Oh well it's a beautiful day outside and it's SoCal golf, so what did you expect?

5:15 round - Equal parts waiting and golfing. "Wait is that group in front of us really waiting for the green to clear? Dude, you just hit your driver 240 - you aren't getting there in two" or "holy crap, I think I saw two groups waiting on that next par 3" are commonly overheard expressions. Hopefully I am playing well that day or else the waiting really starts to annoy me.

5:30 and above - "Death march." I am probably frustrated no matter how well I am playing.

All of the above is basically to say that those of you who consider anything above 4 hours to be torture...... well, I'm jealous.... but make sure you don't come out to play SoCal muni golf!

[GregoryShell]

I think if you use good golf etiquette and remember not to lollygag you should be doing all right. Those darned lollygaggers can sure be frustrating. A practice swing or even two, especially if you are already practicing ready golf shouldn't have much affect at all. I will always hit the putt until it drops in the cup and I pretty much always take a practice swing or two and I don't believe anyone would consider me a lollygagger or that I play at a slow pace. Some people just don't care about their pace and are obvious about. That is also very frustrating. Are they lollygaggers or arses by choice? You can try to gently explain golf etiquette to some when you get a chance and why it is important but it just offends the heck out of some people. That can teach you real quick who is worth playing with. You shouldn't rush your shot, but making sure you aren't wasting time between shots is what I believe to be the most important factors in keeping up the right pace. You shouldn't have to rush anything.

Regarding the vote, keeping up with the group  ahead of you can be tough if the number of golfers in the group ahead is fewer and or if the level of play for the group is much higher than your group. If those are scratch golfers for instance and your group is not near that level, you are going to have a hard time keeping up with them and shouldn't try if it means rushing anything.

[rehmwa]

One guy that's a usual part of our 4-some and a great guy insists on taking 3 - 4 practice swings on every shot......... Every time we try to get him to take just one practice swing he'll shank the shot and blame us for making him deviate from his routine.

You are making him deviate from his routine and it could be causing his bad shots.  cut it out.

1 - encourage him to clean up his routine at the driving range, not on the course

2 - he can take a dozen practice swings if he does it while the others are hitting - encourage him to do his practice swing while the others are hitting and not to worry if he and another in the group hit simultaneously

I don't really think people NEED to hit one at a time - except for putting and teeing off.  I find it silly really.

[18rounds]

 

 

 

I don't really think people NEED to hit one at a time - except for putting and teeing off.  I find it silly really.

Oh NO! Don't let them here you say that over in the rules forum. The rules say one at a time and if you don't play by every rule you are not allowed to talk about golf to anyone outside of your foursome.

Otherwise some Scottish dude in a kilt will come beet you to death with a bagpipe.

[mcanadiens]

My guys are so damn ready, we've had chips and pitches running within inches of each other on more than a few occasions.

[Golfingdad]

The continuum for SoCal municipal golf (note: this probably applies to other metro areas like NYC as well)

4:30 round - Good solid pace, a few minutes of waiting here and there but nothing to take me out of rhythm. I am pleasantly surprised

4:15 round - Wow, we finished pretty quickly. I waited on a couple of the par 3's, but that's about it. Looks like I have time for a beer in the clubhouse

4:00 round - Holy smokes, why is this course so open? Was there an earthquake and I just missed it? This is awesome, I wish it could be like this every round!

3:45 round or less - "Speed golf". Either you have the first or second tee time of the day, or you ain't getting around in under 3:45.

On the other end of the spectrum

4:45 round - Decent pace. Waited on several holes, but nothing significant. Had a few beers and cracked some jokes with my playing partners on the tee box.

5:00 round - Waiting on most holes. Starting to feel slow. Oh well it's a beautiful day outside and it's SoCal golf, so what did you expect?

5:15 round - Equal parts waiting and golfing. "Wait is that group in front of us really waiting for the green to clear? Dude, you just hit your driver 240 - you aren't getting there in two" or "holy crap, I think I saw two groups waiting on that next par 3" are commonly overheard expressions. Hopefully I am playing well that day or else the waiting really starts to annoy me.

5:30 and above - "Death march." I am probably frustrated no matter how well I am playing.

All of the above is basically to say that those of you who consider anything above 4 hours to be torture...... well, I'm jealous.... but make sure you don't come out to play SoCal muni golf!

I want to give @Big C sideways 8 thumbs up for this one, because it couldn't have been explained any better.  A couple of (silly) additions:

To the 4:00 round, I'd add that there has to be some sort of karma inducing knock on wood statement at the end, otherwise you risk turning the corner to the next hole and seeing where all the groups are piled up.  Apparently there was an injury accident on the 17th hole and traffic is backed up to Sepulveda!  Oops.

And to the 5:15 round, I'd also add that I get good practice twirling my club around like I'm the baton chick in the marching band, and I also spend time trying to figure out which @#$%ers are the ones up ahead causing this mess.

[rehmwa]

Oh NO! Don't let them here you say that over in the rules forum. The rules say one at a time and if you don't play by every rule you are not allowed to talk about golf to anyone outside of your foursome.

let me be clear

"hitting" one at a time is totally different that going through it with their routines overlapping.........

(get a tight enough stop watch and it's not actually possible to 'hit' at the same time - yeah, I'll play that silly card.....)

[newtogolf]

let me be clear

"hitting" one at a time is totally different that going through it with their routines overlapping.........

(get a tight enough stop watch and it's not actually possible to 'hit' at the same time - yeah, I'll play that silly card.....)

If you would like to stand in front of a 25+ handicap while he's about to hit his golf ball you're welcome to do so but I prefer not to get hit with a golf ball just to appease you speed players.

[18rounds]

If you would like to stand in front of a 25+ handicap while he's about to hit his golf ball you're welcome to do so but I prefer not to get hit with a golf ball just to appease you speed players.

Don't worry about us 25+ ers. We usually are far enough off in the weeds to be of no danger. :)

[Golfingdad]

One guy that's a usual part of our 4-some and a great guy insists on taking 3 - 4 practice swings on every shot.  When we're being pressured it's painful to watch him waste valuable time that we have to keep pace but that's his pre-shot routine and we can't break him of it.  Every time we try to get him to take just one practice swing he'll shank the shot and blame us for making him deviate from his routine.

I'd hate to cause a buddy to play worse than he should, so I feel like you need to just tell him that if he must take the practice swings that he has to figure out a way to make up for it the rest of the time.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

 

One guy that's a usual part of our 4-some and a great guy insists on taking 3 - 4 practice swings on every shot......... Every time we try to get him to take just one practice swing he'll shank the shot and blame us for making him deviate from his routine.

 

You are making him deviate from his routine and it could be causing his bad shots.  cut it out.

 

1 - encourage him to clean up his routine at the driving range, not on the course

2 - he can take a dozen practice swings if he does it while the others are hitting - encourage him to do his practice swing while the others are hitting and not to worry if he and another in the group hit simultaneously

 

I don't really think people NEED to hit one at a time - except for putting and teeing off.  I find it silly really.

True.  In fact I read an article many years ago by a Scotsman who was amazed that players in the US didn't do this on a regular basis.  As long as you aren't bothering the other player, then have at it.  If you are on opposite sides of the fairway, then there is no reason in the world not to start your routines at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rehmwa 

 

 

 

I don't really think people NEED to hit one at a time - except for putting and teeing off.  I find it silly really.

 

Oh NO! Don't let them here you say that over in the rules forum. The rules say one at a time and if you don't play by every rule you are not allowed to talk about golf to anyone outside of your foursome.

Otherwise some Scottish dude in a kilt will come beet you to death with a bagpipe.

 

Wrong - I spend more time in the rules forum than anywhere else, and I'm fine with it.  Just don't fluff your lie before you hit.

There is no penalty attached to playing out of "correct" order in stroke play, so go for it.  I often have already addressed the ball before the previous player has hit.  My shot can easily come within a second or two of his.

[flopster]

I think if you use good golf etiquette and remember not to lollygag you should be doing all right. Those darned lollygaggers can sure be frustrating. A practice swing or even two, especially if you are already practicing ready golf shouldn't have much affect at all. I will always hit the putt until it drops in the cup and I pretty much always take a practice swing or two and I don't believe anyone would consider me a lollygagger or that I play at a slow pace. Some people just don't care about their pace and are obvious about. That is also very frustrating. Are they lollygaggers or arses by choice? You can try to gently explain golf etiquette to some when you get a chance and why it is important but it just offends the heck out of some people. That can teach you real quick who is worth playing with. You shouldn't rush your shot, but making sure you aren't wasting time between shots is what I believe to be the most important factors in keeping up the right pace. You shouldn't have to rush anything.

Regarding the vote, keeping up with the group  ahead of you can be tough if the number of golfers in the group ahead is fewer and or if the level of play for the group is much higher than your group. If those are scratch golfers for instance and your group is not near that level, you are going to have a hard time keeping up with them and shouldn't try if it means rushing anything.

Playing ability should rarely have any effect on pace of play, personally I have seen 18 handicap players move along faster than scratch and plus index players, wasting time is the biggest cause of slow play not the actual playing golf. If people would simply pay attention to what they are doing and make keeping the round moving in a forward direction a priority slow play would never exist, for some people if you don't purposely take your time then you can't enjoy yourself , I really believe that's the mindset of a lot of people and slow play is going to forever be a problem until courses get aggressive in preventing it.

[Lihu]

True.  In fact I read an article many years ago by a Scotsman who was amazed that players in the US didn't do this on a regular basis.  As long as you aren't bothering the other player, then have at it.  If you are on opposite sides of the fairway, then there is no reason in the world not to start your routines at the same time.

Wrong - I spend more time in the rules forum than anywhere else, and I'm fine with it.  Just don't fluff your lie before you hit.

There is no penalty attached to playing out of "correct" order in stroke play, so go for it.  I often have already addressed the ball before the previous player has hit.  My shot can easily come within a second or two of his.

Or lie about your fluff.

[flopster]

Or lie about your fluff.

Most people do

[turtleback]

Playing ability should rarely have any effect on pace of play, personally I have seen 18 handicap players move along faster than scratch and plus index players, wasting time is the biggest cause of slow play not the actual playing golf. If people would simply pay attention to what they are doing and make keeping the round moving in a forward direction a priority slow play would never exist, for some people if you don't purposely take your time then you can't enjoy yourself, I really believe that's the mindset of a lot of people and slow play is going to forever be a problem until courses get aggressive in preventing it.

Personally I have found more instances of the best player in the group being the slowest than the worst player in the group.

The real issue with slow play is ATTITUDE,  Everything else is easily fixable so long as there is an attitude that play should be brisk.

But looking through this thread it is clear to me that there is a lot of slow play attitude out there.  Too many people think their pace of play is perfect - that anyone slower is the problem, and that anyone faster is just a speed golfer.  But that they are never the problem.