Is a scratch or low single digit HCP realistically attainable without tuition?

[rebelrob]

What I meant is that without the natural ability to drive 250 yards or more, you will have not have any reason to believe, at this point, that you can get to scratch or the low single digits.

Many of the other suggestions are great, and will allow you to get to the best you can ever be. Just don't give up if you can't get there as quickly as you would like, or ever.

This is a fun game. Just keep at it.

Oh right. That's kind of what I though you meant. Well I have the ability to do that, and the self belief that I could one day become a scratch golfer. But by no means am I underestimating the dedication and practice it would take to get there.

I think the fact it is such a fun game helps make you want to improve also, not that I'm saying you have to be brilliant to enjoy it. I must admit, when I was younger I did have a break from golf because I swore I was never going to play it again, but that didn't last too long. There's something that keeps calling me back, probably the competitive side to me wanting to get better than I currently am now.

[Lihu]

Oh right. That's kind of what I though you meant. Well I have the ability to do that, and the self belief that I could one day become a scratch golfer. But by no means am I underestimating the dedication and practice it would take to get there. I think the fact it is such a fun game helps make you want to improve also, not that I'm saying you have to be brilliant to enjoy it. I must admit, when I was younger I did have a break from golf because I swore I was never going to play it again, but that didn't last too long. There's something that keeps calling me back, probably the competitive side to me wanting to get better than I currently am now.

It is a pretty great activity, especially in the UK. :-)

[DrvFrShow]

I also think one must know ones limitations. They are not your enemy.

[GHIN0011458]

As per the thread title really.

I'm a young-ish (26) golfer who hasn't had any tuition at all. I first hit a ball through a friend's dad, at the age of about 12, because he wanted to keep us entertained and so took us to the range. He's never kept a hcp or played for anything other than recreation.

From the age 12 until say 18 I never played regularly, starting on par 3's playing a round of 9 holes maybe 10 times in a year, and then playing a municipal course (which plays to about 5600yds) maybe twice, but mainly just hit balls at the range maybe once a month max.

At around 18 I was given a set of second hand clubs from my uncle as he heard I was playing golf a little bit. Nothing special but more than suitable to my current talent. They were just a set of irons, an old 7 wood which is more like a new fashioned hybrid, and a putter.

I started hitting the range more regularly at the age of about 22, maybe going once a week during the summer, but back to once a month during the winter months. I didn't play regularly, but more frequently, say about 3-5 times a year on a full course and up to 20 times on the par 3 course with my friends who I was trying to get into golf. We didn't take it seriously, just a bit of fun.

Recently, I've started giving it some proper time and in the last year have probably been to the range once a week minimum, and the last 3 months about 3 times a week. I decided to bite the bullet and treat myself to a set of new clubs as I thought I wont want to leave a £800 golf bag sitting going to waste.

Long story short, from not really being bothered about a handicap, Ive played 3 rounds with my new clubs and input the scores into a hcp calculator (golfshake.com its probably rough, but must be fairly close as it eliminates blow up holes) and got a hcp of 17. From the .97 method (or whatever it is, you'll have the excuse the ambiguity) I worked out my hcp to 21.7.

Having never bothered taking much notice of my scoring apart from who won overall (My previous best score on a round was 105 on a par 68), after a little commitment and better equipment I feel I have seen a huge leap from where I used to be.

So, apologies for the waffle, I thought a little back story would be nice, rather than a bold and possibly idealistic question, but is a scratch or low single digit HCP realistically attainable without tuition?

I know it may seem a bold question to ask, but hypothetically if someone had a lot of natural talent, is it attainable without tuition? I mean excluding reading up on best practice, techniques, looking for tips,  etc...

And please feel free to say WHATEVER you think, I wont be offended. unless you're going to be picking up on grammar or something stupid, there's already a thread for that.

Thanks in advance.

People who get a zero or scratch handicap do it fairly quickly with practice.. you should know after your first two years if you are headed in the right direction.

[Pretzel]

People who get a zero or scratch handicap do it fairly quickly with practice.. you should know after your first two years if you are headed in the right direction.

This is not necessarily true. I have spent four years top get to the point I'm at now, and I'm nowhere near as good as I know I am capable of being.

[colin007]

With natural ability? Sure. My golf bud has never had a lesson, athletic ability includes playing high school baseball, and plays to about an 8 now.

[GHIN0011458]

This is not necessarily true. I have spent four years top get to the point I'm at now, and I'm nowhere near as good as I know I am capable of being.

4 years to get to a 2.3 is fairly quickly. He started hitting regularly at 22, is now 26 and is at a 17-21. I was able to get to pick up a club at age 20 and immediately shoot in the high 80's(standard course from the whites) where some people play for 10 years and still have trouble breaking 90. Athleticism and Talent is real. I am still progressing, dropping 2.5 strokes off my scoring average again this year and am only in my 6th year. If I keep the same rate next year I would be anywhere between a +1 and +2 and in 3 years I would be on tour right? That would be great but I know at some point we all reach a point where it gets tougher and tougher to get better and takes more and more time. We can all get better. I wasn't saying they would get to scratch within two years for clarification. But your Talent level will come through fairly quickly is my main point.

[flopster]

http://thesandtrap.com/t/71488/my-swing-flopster

This swing has been basically the same for the past 25 years and mainly self taught, I have had ups and downs in index levels but generally stick around a 5, I think at my all time peak I was close to a 2.

[ay33660]

People who get a zero or scratch handicap do it fairly quickly with practice.. you should know after your first two years if you are headed in the right direction.

+1 on this.

I played with a 1 handicap on the weekend.

Prior to joining my club he said he usually golfed less than 12 times a year and always for corporate functions.

Since joining two years ago and taking the game seriously he has dropped to a 1.

I have played golf seriously for over 20 years and the lowest I ever got to was a 9.

[BuckeyeNut]

I never had a lessorn nor do I ever practice and I made it to scratch before. I haven't hit a bucket of balls since 1995.........LOL Practice is like work while playing is.....PLAYING! I like to play...

Some people have the knack/talent for the game while others don't. Some individuals can practice regularly, play often, take lessons, and still be lucky to reach bogey golf after many years of playing. Others.......they can pick up the game and be single digit almost immediately by only playing regularly.

[Osmond]

Low single-digit or even scratch is certainly achievable without tuition, but in your case - as you have played quite a bit already and not really improved - I doubt it. With tuition, who knows where your limit is. I self-taught myself until about a 5 hcp but after that it's been an uphill struggle. I'm starting to think I did more harm than good by trying to learn the game by myself, since muscle memory is a terrible thing when you've taught yourself to make weird moves in your golf swing.

[zipazoid]

I was a single-digit handicap by the age of 18 with no instruction. I learned from reading Ben Hogan's Five Lessons & Jack Nicklaus Golf My Way & hitting TONS of balls. I was (and still am to an extent) blessed with a good putting stroke though. It's just natural to me, so that greatly aided in lowering my score.

When I was about 28 I changed my grip from an interlock to overlap. My grip was too strong & I was fighting hooks, and in competition it really exposed itself. Again, I did this without instruction. I dropped from a 7 to a 3, but it took a solid year to get there.

About 10 years back I had my first 'real' golf lesson, as in going to a pro, having my swing filmed & getting it analyzed.

So, to the OP's question, yes, it is possible to be a single-digit handicap without lessons.

[atrapasuenos]

Before I went to Aguascalientes, I was a 16, I used to finish my rounds very angry cause I was playing only one day per week and I knew that if I had the chance to play more I could have a better handicap.

Then I moved to Aguascalientes, where I used to play every single day, at least 9 holes and hit some balls at the range. I arrived in late July, maybe the last week, and started playing a lot. In November I shot my first Even par round but most of the time I was shooting 1 or 2 over par. By December I started playing consistently Even par rounds but when I had the chance to hit my first under par round my hand shake while I was getting ready to hit the putt.

The first week of February I finally shot my first -1 round. The sensation was amazing! Fortunately it didn't last long and the next I shot a -2 playing with the pro of the club.

I took some lessons when I was in Mexico, two to be exact, to try to get rid of the slice but I really like doing some research and watched a lot of golf videos to see what movements I could copy. Yes, I now it was not the best but kinda worked for me. Now when I say that I watched a lot of golf videos... I'm not joking that I easily spent around 5 hours, I was studying and with some free time.

The pro at Aguascalientes he gave me just one tip that I practiced and gave me a better idea of what I needed to do but that was it. I read from here when the S&T; was the new thing and tried to apply some of the stuff I read and made it work... good or badly applied but worked.

So, I do believe it's possible to hit scratch without taking lessons but you need plenty of time to practice. I had late classes so I used to play from 9:00am to 2:00pm - it was a short course so it took us around 3 hours to play 18 - and if I had time I came back at 7:00pm to help the guy from the range to pick the balls up, I grabbed a wedge and helped him to take all the balls from the back to the 50 yard mark. It took us 2 hours but they had 1,000 balls at the range so we picked up easily around 800 balls. The club ended all black because of all the grass from the divots. It was cool.

[Tical1969]

Hi;

I did learn by myself (watching vids, TV, reading books, and at the range observing very good players).

I did try a lesson once long ago, but as the teacher wanted me to switch righty (it was supposed to be easier, more club to choose...ect) i quit the lesson after 10 minutes.

As golf is (was) a bit expensive, my budget went to playing rather than lessons, and i think that if you are normally gifted, a single Hdp is really easy, but being a real scratch player is a totally, far far away different world...

On my point of view, it is way more easy to get from 36 to 10 than from 5 to 0.

To play single digit (and 0 for sure) what you really need first is TIME, PRACTICE (once a week minimum, every week, in almost any weather conditions,

every kind of shot, long and short game, putting, bunkers...) and REGULARITY

But if you can afford it, and you find the right Pro to help you, (stay away from free tips of average golfers) even if you are really gifted, it will always go faster and smoother with a good Teacher than alone.

Reagards

[Pretzel]

@rebelrob , I don't know if you still check this thread at all, but the biggest thing you should be getting from it if you do is that practice is essential. Going out once a month or just once on the weekends won't get you down to single digits unless you are very gifted. I know that I, myself, made what felt like the biggest personal leap this year (from a 5 or 6 handicap who couldn't break 80 in tournaments to a 2.3 who actually played to a 2.1 in the biggest tournaments of the year) just by playing and practicing every single day over the summer. Consistently going out and using your time wisely will net the largest gains.

[vangator]

I was a single-digit handicap by the age of 18 with no instruction. I learned from reading Ben Hogan's Five Lessons & Jack Nicklaus Golf My Way & hitting TONS of balls. I was (and still am to an extent) blessed with a good putting stroke though. It's just natural to me, so that greatly aided in lowering my score.  When I was about 28 I changed my grip from an interlock to overlap. My grip was too strong & I was fighting hooks, and in competition it really exposed itself. Again, I did this without instruction. I dropped from a 7 to a 3, but it took a solid year to get there.  About 10 years back I had my first 'real' golf lesson, as in going to a pro, having my swing filmed & getting it analyzed.  So, to the OP's question, yes, it is possible to be a single-digit handicap without lessons.

A few years back, I was scratch and have never had a lesson. So it's possible especially today with the internet. It helps when you can hit the ball long and keep it in play. You can scrape the ball around with your irons and putter (like I did) and make pars.

[No Mulligans]

I don't doubt some could become scratch players without instruction.  Incredible talent and dedication could get you there.

But, I pose you this, if you take a hundred random 30 year olds who all were really dedicated to learning golf,  and gave them instruction, and gave them 5 years to spend 20 hours a week on golf...

How many of them would be scratch golfers?

My hypothesis is most just don't have the innate talent to become a scratch golfer. Becoming a scratch golfer is a lofty goal.  (Is Dan from the "Dan Plan" a scratch golfer?)

[Lihu]

I don't doubt some could become scratch players without instruction.  Incredible talent and dedication could get you there. But, I pose you this, if you take a hundred random 30 year olds who all were really dedicated to learning golf,  and gave them instruction, and gave them 5 years to spend 20 hours a week on golf... How many of them would be scratch golfers? My hypothesis is most just don't have the innate talent to become a scratch golfer. Becoming a scratch golfer is a lofty goal.  (Is Dan from the "Dan Plan" a scratch golfer?)

Some of us are also a bit "thicker" than others and the information takes longer and more teaching to assimilate. Some people can own their swings almost right away, some can't. I tend to think most can't, because golf is really hard to learn.