Is Distance Really That Important for Amateurs?

[Lihu]

I haven't gone thru the whole thread so I apologize in advance if this point has already been discussed. Recently I have seen some good improvement in my game and as a consequence of this my index had dropped from 16.5 to 11.7 over the last 6 months. I try to keep simple stats for each round - Fairways hit, GIR, Putts. Looking over the past 6 months my fairways hits stat have improved the most. My next best improve has been in GIR. My putting and short game overall still sucks big time. Not only is my driving more accurate my distance has improved a lot too. The length of my home course is short (it is a very old course built in 1910) so from the regular tees that I play from it measures only 6,481 yards. Whereas before my driving improvement I used to hit my second shots with a 5 or 6 iron now I am able to use 8 and 9 irons and my GIR has improved as a result. Also when I do miss the green it is in the first cut of rough just off the green. I shot a 79 last weekend. It was my best round of the year by far. I did it without any spectacular hole outs but with 13 pars, 4 bogies and 1 triple ( on a par 5). I only missed 1 fairway (my triple) but had 37 putts. Based on the length of my second shots my driving distance has gone from 200 carry with 10 yards of roll (wet fairways) to 220 carry with 10 yards of roll. My 6 or 5 irons carry about 150 to 160. My 9 and 8 irons carry about 120 to 130. I know this is a very short drive to the rest of the members here but it is a big difference for me. The long and the short of this dribble is that I think driving accuracy and distance is very important for amateurs like me. Kinda contra to that saying of driving for show and putting for dough.

Yeah, distance is key for high handicaps to get better. My GIR has gone up. My putting and chipping are the same. Fairways are worse. Dropped from 17.4 to 13.7 (today's round will drop it to 13.3, and if I could include yesterday 12.8). Basically, more GIR makes my scores go down. GIR to me is the ability to hit my irons more accurately from closer up, but it's because I hit a shorter irons farther and closer to the hole not because I hit the long ones more accurately.

[Dave2512]

FWIW by straight forward I meant there is no penalty for hitting it too far, a drive that can make it into a sizeable hazard etc. Every hole has an obstacle but usually not so risky that being closer to the hole wouldn't be a better position. I'll take a lie in a fairway bunker from 140 over a lie in the fairway from 175. Still can't think of many scenarios where you wouldn't want to be as close to the green as possible. The chance of an errant shot is always there. Even if you have to pitch out sideways your next recovery shot is still closer to the green right.

[Ernest Jones]

FWIW by straight forward I meant there is no penalty for hitting it too far, a drive that can make it into a sizeable hazard etc. Every hole has an obstacle but usually not so risky that being closer to the hole wouldn't be a better position. I'll take a lie in a fairway bunker from 140 over a lie in the fairway from 175. Still can't think of many scenarios where you wouldn't want to be as close to the green as possible. The chance of an errant shot is always there. Even if you have to pitch out sideways your next recovery shot is still closer to the green right.

My thoughts exactly.

[rkim291968]

FWIW by straight forward I meant there is no penalty for hitting it too far, a drive that can make it into a sizeable hazard etc. Every hole has an obstacle but usually not so risky that being closer to the hole wouldn't be a better position. I'll take a lie in a fairway bunker from 140 over a lie in the fairway from 175. Still can't think of many scenarios where you wouldn't want to be as close to the green as possible. The chance of an errant shot is always there. Even if you have to pitch out sideways your next recovery shot is still closer to the green right.

Not many but I have one that applies to me.  I am not good at shots for 40 - 70 yards range.   I'd rather be at 85 yards to the green than trying to land it close from 40 to 70 yards.

[Dedicated2Journ]

My thoughts exactly.

So, you really think having loose footing and an unquestionable lie is worth 30 yards? You cannot be accurate out of a bunker and will have few chances at birdie.

Think of it this way... If you were given 175 from the all 18 fairways or a 140 shot from anywhere but the fairway, who would score better on 18 holes?

Given a perfect lie, you'll hit 12/18 greens. 4 or so will be makeable, 4 will be 2 putts, and 4 will need some luck. 6 up/downs (mostly chips I would bet), you're going to be right around par.

140 in a bunker, trees, flier lie, buried lie, hardpan, bad footing, etc. You may hit 8/18 greens if you even have a shot. would give you 1 or 2 makeable birdies, 3 or 4 would be potential 3 putts considering and 1 or 2 would be pars from a solid conservative play. It all depends on how much short game you have that day, my bet is your score suffers.

The pro's don't hit irons and woods on 430 par 4's because they are stupid long. They know the value of hitting a fairway. Even Ben Hogan said the drive is the single most important shot of the hole. It sets you up for birdie if hit well, but could provide a quick bogey if hit badly.

[Dave2512]

Not many but I have one that applies to me.  I am not good at shots for 40 - 70 yards range.   I'd rather be at 85 yards to the green than trying to land it close from 40 to 70 yards.

My guess is perception and expectation play a part in this. When I am 40 out I expect to get it closer than I usually do. But usually a miss from 40 isn't as a severe as one from 85. I think you said you play to a 19. No offense but I remember being there and even now most of my shots are some kind of playable miss.

[Dave2512]

Given a perfect lie, you'll hit 12/18 greens.

You might at scratch but I won't. I average 7-8 GIR a round, others here in my index range will support this, and I am often in the 115-175 range for approach shots. On my very best days I might get close to 12 GIR but it isn't the norm and at least two of those will be on mundane par 3's. The flipside I hit more FIR than GIR, I'll chance it that my drive is going to be half decent and out of trouble.

[Ernest Jones]

So, you really think having loose footing and an unquestionable lie is worth 30 yards? You cannot be accurate out of a bunker and will have few chances at birdie.

Think of it this way... If you were given 175 from the all 18 fairways or a 140 shot from anywhere but the fairway, who would score better on 18 holes?

Given a perfect lie, you'll hit 12/18 greens. 4 or so will be makeable, 4 will be 2 putts, and 4 will need some luck. 6 up/downs (mostly chips I would bet), you're going to be right around par.

140 in a bunker, trees, flier lie, buried lie, hardpan, bad footing, etc. You may hit 8/18 greens if you even have a shot. would give you 1 or 2 makeable birdies, 3 or 4 would be potential 3 putts considering and 1 or 2 would be pars from a solid conservative play. It all depends on how much short game you have that day, my bet is your score suffers.

The pro's don't hit irons and woods on 430 par 4's because they are stupid long. They know the value of hitting a fairway. Even Ben Hogan said the drive is the single most important shot of the hole. It sets you up for birdie if hit well, but could provide a quick bogey if hit badly.

Actually, FWIW, I flagged my post hoping it would be removed as I am SO done with this thread. I've said my piece as have others. Now it is time to let sleeping dogs lie.

[turtleback]

A lot of If's in my post if you didn't notice. I never said it WAS mine. I am better from 60 yards than you I would bet.

Well hell, that PROVES your opinion is better than mine on everything golf.

[boogielicious]

@GHIN0011458 ,

You can multi-quote by hitting the multi button on the first thread and quote on the next.  It makes for a cleaner thread.

Thanks.

[Golfingdad]

So, you really think having loose footing and an unquestionable lie is worth 30 yards? You cannot be accurate out of a bunker and will have few chances at birdie.

Think of it this way... If you were given 175 from the all 18 fairways or a 140 shot from anywhere but the fairway, who would score better on 18 holes?

Given a perfect lie, you'll hit 12/18 greens. 4 or so will be makeable, 4 will be 2 putts, and 4 will need some luck. 6 up/downs (mostly chips I would bet), you're going to be right around par.

See, this kind of stuff just proves how uninformed people are when they make up these random stats.  Given a perfect lie, please explain who, exactly is hitting the green 67% of the time from 175 yards?

Did you know that from 150-175 (not just 175, but all shots down to and including 150 yards) that only the top 45 players ON THE PGA TOUR can hit 12 out of 18 greens?  The next category up, 175-200 yards, the VERY BEST player on the PGA tour hit the green LESS than 2/3 of the time.

Another random stat:  The 50th best player on the PGA tour makes birdie around 16% of the time.  That's less than 3 per 18 holes.

So to support your conclusion that accuracy to an amateur is important, you assume that said amateur will, once, he hits the fairway 175 yards from the green (which is no guarantee, by any means), be better than the best players in the world from that point in to the hole??

[No Mulligans]

[DrvFrShow]

Are people counting embarrassing moments with the 30 to 50 yd wedge shot such as skulling it over the green and into the woods behind it; Or shanking the wedge shot off somewhere into the bunker on the right (or left); Or outright choking on the wedge shot and landing a fat one right in the water vs hitting a 9 iron from the center of the fairway considering those embarrassing moments are less likely to happen and are slightly more forgivable when they do as their reason for choosing accuracy over distance?

Let's not count the chokes and those other embarrassing moments. When you hit the wedge properly the wedge is more accurate.

[Golfingdad]

Are people counting embarrassing moments with the 30 to 50 yd wedge shot such as skulling it over the green and into the woods behind it; Or shanking the wedge shot off somewhere into the bunker on the right (or left); Or outright choking on the wedge shot and landing a fat one right in the water vs hitting a 9 iron from the center of the fairway considering those embarrassing moments are less likely to happen and are slightly more forgivable when they do as their reason for choosing accuracy over distance?

Let's not count the chokes and those other embarrassing moments. When you hit the wedge properly the wedge is more accurate.

Why do you feel that those embarrassing moments are less likely to happen so much further back?

[Dave2512]

Even then I've never seen a sculled wedge miss as far as a bad long iron shot. Does it suck sure but it's usually still closer to the hole than a longer club would be. Seems like every high handicapper thinks they are better from distance X than they really are. Shit if I hit 4-5 really good shots out of 78-84ish strokes it's a good day. What these folks don't realize is if you have a 30-50 yard shot left is they probably mishit the previous shot.

[Dedicated2Journ]

OMG... love this! Thanks for posting...

[Hoya Destroya]

I don't know if I even belong in this conversation. When I was younger I could hit my driver maybe 230. My 3 wood 210. But in fairness that was with persimmon woods. Irons were always forged muscle backs. Fast forward 30 years and I'm struggling to hit the driver 190. But I've always been straight with maybe a baby draw.  I think it comes down to fundamentals. In the "good old days" you pretty much had to have decent fundamentals or the ball wasn't getting airborne. I pretty much play the same courses and except for resort courses which were designed with gold tees, I end up playing the whites (6200-6500 yards).  Anything over 380 yards is a long par 4 but it doesn't upset me to be short and pitching my third. So for me the answer is distance.

[Dedicated2Journ]

See, this kind of stuff just proves how uninformed people are when they make up these random stats.  Given a perfect lie, please explain who, exactly is hitting the green 67% of the time from 175 yards?

Did you know that from 150-175 (not just 175, but all shots down to and including 150 yards) that only the top 45 players ON THE PGA TOUR can hit 12 out of 18 greens?  The next category up, 175-200 yards, the VERY BEST player on the PGA tour hit the green LESS than 2/3 of the time.

Another random stat:  The 50th best player on the PGA tour makes birdie around 16% of the time.  That's less than 3 per 18 holes.

So to support your conclusion that accuracy to an amateur is important, you assume that said amateur will, once, he hits the fairway 175 yards from the green (which is no guarantee, by any means), be better than the best players in the world from that point in to the hole??

I've read "Every Shot Counts"... I get it. Truth is...none of us are pros.

If you can't hit a consistent 175 shot, then you probably can't drive it over 250...so what is the point of arguing? 140 approaches on long par 4's isn't in your wheelhouse. I know for a fact that top state amatuers would prefer the 175 fairway shot over a 140 unknown lie shot. If you want to believe otherwise, that's fine. You'll never break par though...I can promise you that.