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mvmac

Why Flaring Your Feet at Address Makes Golf Easier

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2 hours ago, dkolo said:

Other than catching myself forgetting to do it sometimes because it's still not ingrained, it's felt pretty natural after a few swings.

You're not alone, even the tour players forget. One instructor told me it took his player six months to do it without having to be reminded. 

I initially liked flaring my feet out so it didn't take me very long to make it my new normal. Now if anything I have to make sure I don't flare them too much.

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21 minutes ago, mvmac said:

You're not alone, even the tour players forget. One instructor told me it took his player six months to do it without having to be reminded. 

I initially liked flaring my feet out so it didn't take me very long to make it my new normal. Now if anything I have to make sure I don't flare them too much.

Same here. I was lucky enough to learn this before I was too set in my ways so it was an easy change that I've never really had to think about. 

If only the dynamic changes were as easy to implement and make permanent. 

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3 hours ago, mvmac said:

Now if anything I have to make sure I don't flare them too much.

Yea I have that problem, too. I have a tendency to flare my front foot almost 45° and I forget sometimes to bring it in a bit.

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12 hours ago, billchao said:

Yea I have that problem, too. I have a tendency to flare my front foot almost 45° and I forget sometimes to bring it in a bit.

I made it part of my set up routine to get it to stick. I place the club behind the ball with my feet together. I then flare my left foot and either move it for woods and irons, or keep it in place for the driver. When I step my right foot back, I flare it then.

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When I first started getting serious about golf this past summer (and before I discovered TST)... I purchased an on-line training course that was supposed to be one of the best by all the reviews. The instructor preached keeping the trail foot square, which I thought odd at the time, since I always normally flared both feet. But then again, much of the stuff didn't work for me, but it was decent for the basics.

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I have heard about flaring your front foot out, but both I had not heard of.  I can see how it would keep you more centered.  I will have to try it.

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One issue for me with flaring the back foot is that the club face ends up looking very closed.   I expect it to be parallel to the back foot because I had spent a lot of time playing with the back foot square.  With it flared I might make a bad swing not really trusting how I'm lined up.  I suppose you get used to it more with practice.  I'm not really sure what my point is except that flaring both feet isn't necessarily a free lunch, you've still got to work on it.

Edited by allenc
why did some words end up big?

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Wow! I'm going to give this a try. Like a lot of posters said, I've been following Hogan's recommendation to square the right foot and flare the left for decades. As I get older (66 in Jan.) it is more difficult to make a good turn. As the photos show Hogan did this himself. I can't wait to try this at the range. Thanks!

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The right foot is a huge source of power as displayed here and flaring it out automatically ''kills'' That power. However if you do this it opens up your hips a lot and makes a free flowing swing. Not flaring your right or back foot causes a restricted hip turn and if combined with a big shoulder turns give you a powerhouse platform to fire from otherwise your golf swing will be looser and whipper like a uncoiled spring. The good news is good hands and the fact the golf club act's like a whip can still allow for good power just not like Mr MciLroy.

Edited by Mike Boatright

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The right foot is a huge source of power as displayed here and flaring it out automatically ''kills'' That power. However if you do this it opens up your hips a lot and makes a free flowing swing. Not flaring your right or back foot causes a restricted hip turn and if combined with a big shoulder turns give you a powerhouse platform to fire from otherwise your golf swing will be looser and whipper like a uncoiled spring. The good news is good hands and the fact the golf club act's like a whip can still allow for good power just not like Mr MciLroy.

You post is contradictory. Restricting the hips reduces power.

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The right foot is a huge source of power as displayed here and flaring it out automatically ''kills'' That power. However if you do this it opens up your hips a lot and makes a free flowing swing.

 

Bracing or pushing for power off your right side is a myth. Look at Bubba, massive hip turn. That right side has very little leverage in the swing. He's been one of the longest hitters on tour for years.

Bubba.JPG

Flaring your feet frees up the hips, allows for better turn rates, allows for better kinematic sequencing in the swing, enhances a centered pivot and allows the golfer to deliver more power effectively with better contact.

 

Not flaring your right or back foot causes a restricted hip turn and if combined with a big shoulder turns give you a powerhouse platform to fire from otherwise your golf swing will be looser and whipper like a uncoiled spring.

Restricting the hips is a myth as well. There is a whole range in which golfers allow their back knee to lose flex. There is no trend saying one way produces more power than the other. You have Rory who loses a small amount of knee flex compared to Bubba who loses a lot. Both are super long hitters.

http://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/55080-myth-of-maintaining-your-address-flex-in-the-rear-knee/

The club is going to whip through naturally through a good kinematic swing sequence because the hands are slowing down around position A6.5. This causes the clubhead to want to pass the hands. Restricting hip turn has a tendency to cause issues with turn rates (sequencing the arms and body) and getting the weight forward at impact. That has a big tendency on having the body stop turning in the downswing, the hands slowing down too soon and allowing the club to flip way too early.

Flaring your feet allows for a lot of good things to happen in the golf swing more easily. It gives you a lot for free.

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5 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

The right foot is a huge source of power as displayed here and flaring it out automatically ''kills'' That power.

Studies have consistently shown that the right leg (all of it, including the foot) contribute next to nothing in the downswing. It's already close to extended, so it can't "push off" very much. Most of the power in getting forward and pivoting comes from the core, and a bit from the front leg. And of course the shoulders, arms, etc.

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12 hours ago, boogielicious said:

You post is contradictory. Restricting the hips reduces power.

Did you watch the video? Butch Harmon specifically states '' Huge shoulder turn but not a very big hip turn'' This is butch Harmon were talking about directly describing how his wide stance and stable back foot creates power all from a huge shoulder turn and minimal hip turn also called the x factor. My post is describing exactly this to a T advocating that flaring your stance with both feet isn't for everyone and can kill power potential in the young athlete.

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Studies have consistently shown that the right leg (all of it, including the foot) contribute next to nothing in the downswing. It's already close to extended, so it can't "push off" very much. Most of the power in getting forward and pivoting comes from the core, and a bit from the front leg. And of course the shoulders, arms, etc.

I'd have to agree with that to some extent I'd say 85% of the swing is firing of the core. You need something to fire from though you can see padraig here it's mostly his core and arms but he jumps off his back foot in the happy gilmore swing. In a static swing you need that platform to go from for max power when you flare your back foot the weight get's negated and goes into your heel and up your leg vs the inside of your back foot and loaded.

 

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There is a 7 inch height gap and probably a 7 inch gap in arm length yet Rory hit's it as far or farther than his style of swing. Bubba swings is very long and get's his speed from momentum and length. Rory get's his power from loading up torque and acceleration. If you happen top be a normal sized golfer with some decent flexibility and power than Rory's style might give you 30 more yards. If you lack power and have just ok flexibility then what you guys are advocating is probably fit for the majority of golfers who couldn't complete a backswing with a restricted hip turn and wouldn't generate enough torque.

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40 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

My post is describing exactly this to a T advocating that flaring your stance with both feet isn't for everyone and can kill power potential in the young athlete.

You'd be wrong

40 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

I'd have to agree with that to some extent I'd say 85% of the swing is firing of the core

It's mostly arm speed. 

 

40 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

You need something to fire from though you can see padraig here it's mostly his core and arms but he jumps off his back foot in the happy gilmore swing. In a static swing you need that platform to go from for max power when you flare your back foot the weight get's negated and goes into your heel and up your leg vs the inside of your back foot and loaded.

He's doing a fricken happy gilmore swing. Is that the best you got to support your argument is a swing no one does seriously or would seriously consider doing! Again, see the video above. Using the ground does not provide the bulk of the power. 

25 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

If you happen top be a normal sized golfer with some decent flexibility and power than Rory's style might give you 30 more yards. If you lack power and have just ok flexibility then what you guys are advocating is probably fit for the majority of golfers who couldn't complete a backswing with a restricted hip turn and wouldn't generate enough torque.

Let me say this from personal experience. I use to swing with a lot of hip restriction. I have gained power allowing my hips to open up and more control.  Your assertion that you lose power is false. 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

Did you watch the video? Butch Harmon specifically states '' Huge shoulder turn but not a very big hip turn''

It wouldn't be the first time someone prominent said something that was wrong.

58 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

This is butch Harmon were talking about directly describing how his wide stance and stable back foot creates power all from a huge shoulder turn and minimal hip turn also called the x factor.

Do some more research. You'll find that the "X Factor" was largely discredited. Bubba turns his hips a bunch. So does Rory McIlroy. Jamie Sadlowski.

Hip Turn.jpg

It's not like either has a 140° shoulder turn, either.

58 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

I'd have to agree with that to some extent I'd say 85% of the swing is firing of the core.

That's not what I said.

58 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

You need something to fire from though you can see padraig here it's mostly his core and arms but he jumps off his back foot in the happy gilmore swing. In a static swing you need that platform to go from for max power when you flare your back foot the weight get's negated and goes into your heel and up your leg vs the inside of your back foot and loaded.

The right leg does very, very little in the downswing of golfers. It contributes almost nothing. The muscles don't even really activate much. This has been demonstrated many times by biomechanists as well as empirically hooking golfers up to sensors, etc.

41 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

There is a 7 inch height gap and probably a 7 inch gap in arm length yet Rory hit's it as far or farther than his style of swing. Bubba swings is very long and get's his speed from momentum and length. Rory get's his power from loading up torque and acceleration.

They both get their power in almost exactly the same ways.

41 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

If you happen top be a normal sized golfer with some decent flexibility and power than Rory's style might give you 30 more yards. If you lack power and have just ok flexibility then what you guys are advocating is probably fit for the majority of golfers who couldn't complete a backswing with a restricted hip turn and wouldn't generate enough torque.

Restricting the hip turn is generally not the way to go. Too many golfers already have a fairly restricted hip swing, which restricts their shoulder turn, which restricts their power.

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