2015 NFL Football Thread

[newtogolf]

So I'm guessing that was a big fat NO! from the owners, at which point Kraft decided he liked the Uncle Fluffy role more than the Al Davis role.  And if Brady's suspension is reduced, he will claim victory and do his best to imply that if it wasn't for his selfless devotion to the NFL (other than the website the patriots put up smearing the nfl, wells, and the wells report) he and his team would have been vindicated and their punishment reduced if he had appealed, instead of putting the interests of the other 31 owners before his own,  Cause good old Uncle Fluffy just wants us all to get along.

It's all about the spin doctors and the spin.  Kraft probably had a PR firm do polling to determine which approach would work best given the potential outcomes and Uncle Fluffy won out.

[dsc123]

So I'm guessing that was a big fat NO! from the owners, at which point Kraft decided he liked the Uncle Fluffy role more than the Al Davis role.  And if Brady's suspension is reduced, he will claim victory and do his best to imply that if it wasn't for his selfless devotion to the NFL (other than the website the patriots put up smearing the nfl, wells, and the wells report) he and his team would have been vindicated and their punishment reduced if he had appealed, instead of putting the interests of the other 31 owners before his own,  Cause good old Uncle Fluffy just wants us all to get along.

Hey now!  He was just talking about weight loss!  And those texts were really about McNally's friend Tom Brody.  Damn autocorrect!

[Golfingdad]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-kraft-drops-the-fight--says-he-ll-accept-deflate-gate-punishment-171900816.html

Whether or not it was discussed openly, I would guess that this decision paves the way for the commissioner to, more easily, shorten Brady's suspension after his appeal.

I think you're right about that.

But I hope you're wrong.

And Shefty is reporting that the NFL asked the Pats to suspend the ball boys before the penalty came down.  That seems like a convenient excuse arrived at during these negotiations--Roger probably said, "Look, we both know you cheated, and you screwed up by sacrificing those lambs  then turning aroudnd and denying that you cheated.  How about you drop this nonsense and we'll let you save face by letting you leak a story saying we asked you to suspend them."

And then Bob Kraft responded thusly:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/was-standing-down-patriots--plan-all-along-to-force-roger-goodell-to-reduce-tom-brady-s-four-game-ban-203621883.html

Waddyasay @dsc123 ... you think that author got his idea from our posts?? Plagiarism, I say!!!!!!!!

[dsc123]

[QUOTE name="Golfingdad" url="/t/80501/2015-nfl-football-thread/252#post_1144582"]   [URL=http://sports.yahoo.com/news/was-standing-down-patriots--plan-all-along-to-force-roger-goodell-to-reduce-tom-brady-s-four-game-ban-203621883.html]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/was-standing-down-patriots--plan-all-along-to-force-roger-goodell-to-reduce-tom-brady-s-four-game-ban-203621883.html[/URL] Waddyasay @dsc123 ... you think that author got his idea from our posts?? :-P   Plagiarism, I say!!!!!!!!:beer: [/QUOTE] Absolutely!  Let's sue em! I think Kraft's tantrum was calculated to solve two things: 1) leverage for negotiations over Brady's penalty; and 2) provide almost plausible talking points for its fans.  Talk to a pats fan about spygate and they'll repeat the nonsense the team put out there.  That Belicheck says they gained no advantage by knowing what plays the other team was running, and that were doing the same thing as everyone else but standing on the wrong side of some arbitrary line.  As if that would have justified what was then the biggest penalty possible.  It doesn't matter, the true believers will stick to it.  The same thing here.  They put out this nonsensical mess of a website that just offers alternative, implausible explanations for each conclusion.  Lots of "maybe this happened" sort of lines, as if making up some imaginary alternative disproves something.  Sure, maybe the refs used the other guage, or misread them or screwed something up.  But then why did McNally sneak the balls into the bathroom?  And why did you suspended McNally?  Why did Brady refuse to turn over his text messages?  Pointing out a make believe alternative that only makes sense if ignore everything else isn't a defense, its PR.   Basically, they're doing what politicians do.     Oh and #3, kraft gets to play the Responsible Man, by saying that he will accept the penalty because the league doesn't nend this distraction. nevermind that he created the distraction.

[dsc123]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12933082/will-smith-milwaukee-brewers-suspended-8-games-foreign-substance That's what happens when you doctor the ball.

[newtogolf]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12933082/will-smith-milwaukee-brewers-suspended-8-games-foreign-substance

That's what happens when you doctor the ball.

8 games equates to about 2-4 appearances for a relief pitcher or less than 10% of their likely appearances, which would support Brady not being suspended for more than 2 games.

[dsc123]

8 games equates to about 2-4 appearances for a relief pitcher or less than 10% of their likely appearances, which would support Brady not being suspended for more than 2 games.

This guy hasn't refused to cooperate in the investigation.

[Golfingdad]

This guy hasn't refused to cooperate in the investigation.

You think there might be some emails from him to the bullpen catcher, or a receipt from CVS for SPF 50 hidden somewhere in the dugout?

More importantly, since when did the Fresh Prince start playing baseball????

[Shindig]

More importantly, since when did the Fresh Prince start playing baseball????:-P

Probably shortly after Goodell suspended him for being named by Gregg Williams in that plea deal.

[saevel25]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25208613/joe-montana-49ers-ol-sprayed-silicone-on-jerseys-until-they-got-caught

Joe Montana should be ousted from the best QB discussion. He clearly got a huge advantage from his O-line spraying silicone on their jerseys, making it harder for D-lineman to get ahold of them.

Quote:

And now, Montana himself has stated that his offensive linemen also broke some NFL rules. "Our offensive linemen used to spray silicone on their shirts until they got caught," Montana said, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ,

Jerry Rice is no longer the best WR, he used stick-um on his hands.

Quote:

Earlier this offseason, Jerry Rice -- only the best receiver ever -- admitted to using stickum on his hands during his playing career. Rice said he knows that practice was "a little illegal," but also maintained that "all players did it." (A line of defense, it should be noted, that many have criticized Patriots/Brady-backers for using, but that's neither here nor there.)

I do like Joe Montana's response here,

Quote:

"It is one of those things that is a rule, right? It might be a dumb rule, but it doesn't matter. He didn't deflate them himself, but you can pick up the ball and can tell if it is underinflated, overinflated or what you like. Everybody is afraid to say it, but if the guy did it, so what. Just pay up and move on. It's no big deal."

One of the greatest of all time doesn't really care if Brady was part of this or not. Probably because he knows he's skirted the rules a few times as well. For as much as we like to put the greats on a pedestal. They certainly tried to skirt the rules to gain an advantage, and use their clout to influence calls to go in their favor (this is more so for baseball and basketball)

[meenman]

One of the greatest of all time doesn't really care if Brady was part of this or not. Probably because he knows he's skirted the rules a few times as well. For as much as we like to put the greats on a pedestal. They certainly tried to skirt the rules to gain an advantage, and use their clout to influence calls to go in their favor (this is more so for baseball and basketball)

I see that both cheaters (brady and montana) were manhandled by the great New York Football Giants. Sometimes good does beat evil.

[dsc123]

[URL=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25208613/joe-montana-49ers-ol-sprayed-silicone-on-jerseys-until-they-got-caught]http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25208613/joe-montana-49ers-ol-sprayed-silicone-on-jerseys-until-they-got-caught[/URL] Joe Montana should be ousted from the best QB discussion. He clearly got a huge advantage from his O-line spraying silicone on their jerseys, making it harder for D-lineman to get ahold of them.  Jerry Rice is no longer the best WR, he used stick-um on his hands.  I do like Joe Montana's response here,  One of the greatest of all time doesn't really care if Brady was part of this or not. Probably because he knows he's skirted the rules a few times as well. For as much as we like to put the greats on a pedestal. They certainly tried to skirt the rules to gain an advantage, and use their clout to influence calls to go in their favor (this is more so for baseball and basketball)

So when you see a ref miss a holding call in the first game of the 2015 season, will you declare it unfair if the refs call another penalty all season long? Or do you agree that anyone who is caught breaking the rules should be punished even if others got away with it? It seems like Montana agrees that Brady, Bob kraft, and pats fans should stop crying, accept the penalty and move on. But the golden boy apologists somehow view statements like this as support for Brady. That makes no sense.

[saevel25]

So when you see a ref miss a holding call in the first game of the 2015 season, will you declare it unfair if the refs call another penalty later in the season? Or do you agree that anyone who is caught breaking the rules should be punished even if others got away with it?

The refs scenario makes no sense. The refs are there to make calls as they see them happen. Refs making a bad call isn't cheating, it's part of the game. I will say refs should not give a team a call because they blew a call earlier. I hate that, lets equal it out BS.

If you got caught, you should be punished. If you didn't get caught, then they live with the guilt or no guilt depending on the person they are.

If you think someone else cheats, and it is a cultural thing in the game and you have the right to cheat as well then that is fine. Just know that if you get caught you could be the only one punished for it. In the end it is still breaking the rules. You don't get to act like a 1st grader and yell, "Well Tom Brady stole candy as well, why can't I"

[dsc123]

I'm not sure what your point is because I was pretty sure you were pointing out others cheating as an excuse for Brady, but everything you just said cuts the other way.

[saevel25]

I'm not sure what your point is because I was pretty sure you were pointing out others cheating as an excuse for Brady, but everything you just said cuts the other way.

Nope, I wasn't saying it gives Brady and excuse. I was just pointing out two players,who most people would say were the best at their positions, or top 5 at their positions in the game. Were either on teams that cheat (and knew about it) or actually cheated.

No one is making a big deal out of it like they are for Brady. I just find it interesting that we like to ream Brady because of Deflategate, and how he shouldn't be mentioned with Montana. Yet Montana knowingly played on a team where the O-line cheated. He threw to a guy who cheated by using stick-um.

Just trying to give a new perspective on Montana and Rice.

[dsc123]

I'm not sure that anyone has made a bigger deal out of this than Bob kraft. The Patriots created a website to full of incoherent babble to feed their fan base. The lies feed the fire.

[turtleback]

One of the greatest of all time doesn't really care if Brady was part of this or not. Probably because he knows he's skirted the rules a few times as well. For as much as we like to put the greats on a pedestal. They certainly tried to skirt the rules to gain an advantage, and use their clout to influence calls to go in their favor (this is more so for baseball and basketball)

Most of the penalty, IMO, was for the obstruction.  Without that I think Brady gets no more than a fine, maybe a 1 game suspension at most, IMO.

Did Montana obstruct an NFL investigation?

Great point made by @meenman , Montana and Brady are considered among, if not THE, best QBs in NFL history (I disavow his other characterization of them).

And the NY Football Giants regularly beat the crap out of both of them and prevented historic accomplishments by both of them.  They prevented Montana from having a shot at a third consecutive Super Bowl in teh 1990 season and they spoiled the undefeated season for the Pats.

The NY Giants: preventing history since 1990.

[saevel25]

And the NY Football Giants regularly beat the crap out of both of them and prevented historic accomplishments by both of them.  They prevented Montana from having a shot at a third consecutive Super Bowl in teh 1990 season and they spoiled the undefeated season for the Pats.

The NY Giants: preventing history since 1990.

NYG only went 3-2 versus San Fran from 1981 to 1990, with one truly epic beat down. So wouldn't say they regularly beat the crap out of them.

If you want to drag it to 1994, then San Fran demolished the NYG equally as bad. That was Steve Young though.

NYG do seem to have the NEP number in the Superbowl.