Poll: Did Ernie Els ground his club in a hazard?

[boogielicious]

Below is the video.  What do you think?

[Golfingdad]

I voted that the video is inconclusive. It left out a long period of indecision between the two shots.  When I turned it on on Saturday he had already played the first shot, and according to the announcers already spoken with a rules official.  Then he took 3 or 4 practice swings on at least two occasions, and in all of them his club disappeared.  It sure LOOKS like he's way down in the grass there, but I guess there is no way to know for sure.

[dkolo]

I voted that the video is inconclusive. It left out a long period of indecision between the two shots.  When I turned it on on Saturday he had already played the first shot, and according to the announcers already spoken with a rules official.  Then he took 3 or 4 practice swings on at least two occasions, and in all of them his club disappeared.  It sure LOOKS like he's way down in the grass there, but I guess there is no way to know for sure.

I sort of couldn't tell either, but I'm looking at this Decision

13-4/4  Touching Grass with Club During Practice Swing in Hazard

A player takes a practice swing in a water hazard without grounding his club, but his club touches some long grass. Is there a penalty?

A. No — see Note to Rule 13-4. However, the player must ensure that his actions do not breach Rule 13-2 or constitute testing the condition of the hazard

and without knowing more, my intuition is he's fine? I think it's only a penalty in hazard grass if you let the club rest in it under its own weight.

[bman1313]

I saw it live and it definitely looked like he pressed down on the club to me. It looked like more than a brush of the top of the grass so I voted yes he grounded his club. It is really tough to see on video but Ernie knows the rules and it is obvious his ball is in the hazard with the red line right there so I would take Ernie's word on this one.

[Ferguson]

Oh my goodness gracias - he grounded the club. It's the Jane Blalock controversy all over again!.

[DrvFrShow]

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

[David in FL]

Video is inconclusive and Ernie says he didn't ground the club. Nothing more to say.....

[dkolo]

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Well it looks like he took his "Should've Taken a Drop Instead of Playing It Like a Nincompoop" penalty (hereinafter "STADIOPILAN") a couple times over, haha.

[billchao]

Video replay shows the play is inconclusive. Therefore, the ruling on the field stands ;-)

[Abu3baid]

What a putt... Saves a triple, amazing!

[jbishop15]

My first instinct, watching this live, was that he grounded the club. But the video isn't 100% clear, and I just have a hard time imagining that Els would ground his club. He knows he's in a hazard. It's inconclusive for me.

[Golfingdad]

Video is inconclusive and Ernie says he didn't ground the club. Nothing more to say.....

But if this happened to Tiger, oh the shitstorm that would ensue ...

[David in FL]

But if this happened to Tiger, oh the shitstorm that would ensue ...

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

[Golfingdad]

Not from me.

Me neither.  But you KNOW that isn't true for a large group of people out there. :)

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Well it looks like he took his "Should've Taken a Drop Instead of Playing It Like a Nincompoop" penalty (hereinafter "STADIOPILAN") a couple times over, haha.

Actually, you guys bring up a good side question for a rules discussion.  After dumping the second attempt back into the water, why did he choose to go all the way back to the spot of the original shot that entered the hazard?  If I'm reading this correctly, he could still drop right at the point the ball first crossed the hazard line:

26-2 . Ball Played Within Water Hazard

a . Ball Comes to Rest in Same or Another Water Hazard

If a ball played from within a water hazard comes to rest in the same or another water hazard after the stroke , the player may:

(i) proceed under Rule 26-1a . If, after dropping in the hazard , the player elects not to play the dropped ball, he may:

(a) proceed under Rule 26-1b , or if applicable Rule 26-1c , adding the additional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of this hazard before it came to rest in this hazard ; or

(b) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5 ); or

(ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b , or if applicable Rule 26-1c ; or

(iii) under penalty of one stroke , play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5 ).

26-2a(ii) says he can proceed under Rule 26-1b, which says:

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard , keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

Now, I didn't see his original shot, but even if it was a giant pull slice, it still would have crossed into the hazard well closer to the hole than where he went back to, no?

I don't get it.  (Sorry about the formatting - my cutting and pasting really mucked this all up).

[Ernest Jones]

Oh my goodness gracias - he grounded the club. It's the Jane Blalock controversy all over again!.

Are you always like this?

[saevel25]

I am 50/50. It is hard to tell if he did, but he didn't make it look clear cut like others do when they hover the club a bit more in those situations. I would give him the benefit of the doubt there.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Not from me.

Me neither.  But you KNOW that isn't true for a large group of people out there. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkolo

Well it looks like he took his "Should've Taken a Drop Instead of Playing It Like a Nincompoop" penalty (hereinafter "STADIOPILAN") a couple times over, haha.

Actually, you guys bring up a good side question for a rules discussion.  After dumping the second attempt back into the water, why did he choose to go all the way back to the spot of the original shot that entered the hazard?  If I'm reading this correctly, he could still drop right at the point the ball first crossed the hazard line:

26-2. Ball Played Within Water Hazard

a. Ball Comes to Rest in Same or Another Water Hazard

If a ball played from within a water hazard comes to rest in the same or another water hazard after the stroke, the player may:

(i) proceed under Rule 26-1a. If, after dropping in the hazard, the player elects not to play the dropped ball, he may:

(a) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c, adding theadditional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of thishazard before it came to rest in this hazard; or

(b) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazardwas made (see Rule 20-5); or

(ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c; or

(iii)under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule20-5).

26-2a(ii) says he can proceed under Rule 26-1b, which says:

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

Now, I didn't see his original shot, but even if it was a giant pull slice, it still would have crossed into the hazard well closer to the hole than where he went back to, no?

I don't get it.  (Sorry about the formatting - my cutting and pasting really mucked this all up).

Excellent question.  He played a ball in the hazard and hit it further in the hazard.

[Fourputt]

Actually, you guys bring up a good side question for a rules discussion.  After dumping the second attempt back into the water, why did he choose to go all the way back to the spot of the original shot that entered the hazard?  If I'm reading this correctly, he could still drop right at the point the ball first crossed the hazard line:

Actually the dropping reference point for his two club measurement would be the spot where the ball last crossed the margin not first.

I voted that the video is inconclusive, and I did not watch any golf this weekend, so I don't know where any of his other options might have place him.  Is the entire hazard marked as a lateral, or is part of it a regular water hazard?  And where did the ball last cross the margin into the hazard?