Poll: Did Ernie Els ground his club in a hazard?

[boogielicious]

Here is a drawing of the shots.  Looks like he had no choice.

[Moppy]

I take Els at his word, same as I would take Tiger, but there was a lot more than 1:12 of him appearing to poke around at the ground with his club. There was a rules official who seemed to do a double take, etc.  Of course we all remember the famous scene with the shadows from Austin Powers...

[Golfingdad]

Here is a drawing of the shots.  Looks like he had no choice.

Such a weird shaped hole.  (Really funny looking overhead when you also include the hole on the other side of that hazard.  They're almost two matching half moons. :))

He could at least have moved up 15-20, 30, whatever, yards towards the end of the fairway at waters edge though.  Then again, perhaps that's what he did and the announcers just didn't verse it quite right.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Here is a drawing of the shots.  Looks like he had no choice.

Such a weird shaped hole.  (Really funny looking overhead when you also include the hole on the other side of that hazard.  They're almost two matching half moons. :))

He could at least have moved up 15-20, 30, whatever, yards towards the end of the fairway at waters edge though.  Then again, perhaps that's what he did and the announcers just didn't verse it quite right.

My guess is that he dropped in the best place for the club he was going to use.  Closer may have put him in between clubs.

[Golfingdad]

My guess is that he dropped in the best place for the club he was going to use.  Closer may have put him in between clubs.

Agreed.  When I first asked the question, I didn't realize that so much of the second shot was over water as well.

[Gunther]

He did not ground his club. In his explanation, he said there was a hole of sorts, just behind the grass from our camera angle. It wasn't visible to the viewer but essentially, his club dropped below the level of the grass from our angle but didn't touch grass in reality because there wasn't any directly below his club, at least at that level. That's his story and I have no reason to question it, esp since a rules official was on the scene.

[Patch]

I voted inconclusive. Els, when asked said he didn't do the deed, which is good enough for me.

[cubdog]

Oh my goodness gracias - he grounded the club. It's the Jane Blalock controversy all over again!.

I'll take Els word. In fact I'd take his word over about 99.9 per cent of all PGA pros. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by lying about this. It's not the Jane Blalock controversy again. Not even close, because it's not a controversy.

[Ferguson]

I'll take Els word. In fact I'd take his word over about 99.9 per cent of all PGA pros. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by lying about this. It's not the Jane Blalock controversy again. Not even close, because it's not a controversy.

BE CAREFUL. No one here knows Ernie personally. I'm not questioning his character, but in the middle of a moment such as that after a missed shot and poor decision, one's tendency is to rush and get the hell out of there. Unlike Every who did not cheat and ask for advice, I'm thinking Els may have accidentally grounded the club one time. I say this because the video clearly shows him nervously looking around after the club grounds, almost like, "did anyone see that?" Just then, the marshal shows up on the cart. This act alone makes the circumstance somewhat questionable.

[Ernest Jones]

I say this because the video clearly shows him nervously looking around after the club grounds, almost like, "did anyone see that?" Just then, the marshal shows up on the cart. This act alone makes the circumstance somewhat questionable.

That's not in the video posted in this thread. Do you have another video that shows this? If not, I'm calling BS.

[Gunther]

BE CAREFUL. No one here knows Ernie personally. I'm not questioning his character, but in the middle of a moment such as that after a missed shot and poor decision, one's tendency is to rush and get the hell out of there. Unlike Every who did not cheat and ask for advice, I'm thinking Els may have accidentally grounded the club one time. I say this because the video clearly shows him nervously looking around after the club grounds, almost like, "did anyone see that?" Just then, the marshal shows up on the cart. This act alone makes the circumstance somewhat questionable.

Did not happen.

[dkolo]

BE CAREFUL. No one here knows Ernie personally. I'm not questioning his character, but in the middle of a moment such as that after a missed shot and poor decision, one's tendency is to rush and get the hell out of there. Unlike Every who did not cheat and ask for advice, I'm thinking Els may have accidentally grounded the club one time. I say this because the video clearly shows him nervously looking around after the club grounds, almost like, "did anyone see that?" Just then, the marshal shows up on the cart. This act alone makes the circumstance somewhat questionable.

You fascinate me.

[cubdog]

You fascinate me.

Kind of like a train wreck. Or maybe a fire.

[Golfingdad]

BE CAREFUL. No one here knows Ernie personally. I'm not questioning his character, but in the middle of a moment such as that after a missed shot and poor decision, one's tendency is to rush and get the hell out of there. Unlike Every who did not cheat and ask for advice, I'm thinking Els may have accidentally grounded the club one time. I say this because the video clearly shows him nervously looking around after the club grounds, almost like, "did anyone see that?" Just then, the marshal shows up on the cart. This act alone makes the circumstance somewhat questionable.

I don't remember seeing that, but again, I just turned it on during this incident and wasn't fully invested in what was going on at the time.

That's not in the video posted in this thread. Do you have another video that shows this? If not, I'm calling BS.

You are correct, and @Ferguson does actually say "the video clearly shows" which we can all see isn't correct.  But sort of "in his defense" (and I use that phrase very loosely here), I will say that there is certainly a lot missing from the video.

I voted that the video is inconclusive. It left out a long period of indecision between the two shots.  When I turned it on on Saturday he had already played the first shot, and according to the announcers already spoken with a rules official.  Then he took 3 or 4 practice swings on at least two occasions, and in all of them his club disappeared.  It sure LOOKS like he's way down in the grass there, but I guess there is no way to know for sure.

Between 0:06 and 0:07 in the OP's video was a loooong period of time.  Perhaps what Ferguson is talking about happened during that time frame.  In fact, I would say that the practice swings during that period - the ones not shown on the video above - were the ones that most looked like club grounding to me.

Oh, and I also agree with this part of Ferguson's post:

... in the middle of a moment such as that after a missed shot and poor decision, one's tendency is to rush and get the hell out of there.

I've never seen a tour pro take practice swings like that inside of a hazard.  Whenever they are considering playing from inside of a hazard, they always have their wits about them and remember to take those practice swings outside of the hazard.  Him getting flustered from the first poor shot is what I believe led to the fiasco that followed.  Note, though, that I'm still not willing to call him a cheater, but him even flirting with the ground in the hazard like that was just ... unusual, is all.

[jamo]

When he hits that shot that goes backwards, it looked to me like some of the grass moved. Very tough to tell from that angle and camera shot though.

[Ferguson]

I don't remember seeing that, but again, I just turned it on during this incident and wasn't fully invested in what was going on at the time. You are correct, and @Ferguson does actually say "the video clearly shows" which we can all see isn't correct.  But sort of "in his defense" (and I use that phrase very loosely here), I will say that there is certainly a lot missing from the video. Between 0:06 and 0:07 in the OP's video was a loooong period of time.  Perhaps what Ferguson is talking about happened during that time frame.  In fact, I would say that the practice swings during that period - the ones not shown on the video above - were the ones that most looked like club grounding to me. Oh, and I also agree with this part of Ferguson's post: I've never seen a tour pro take practice swings like that inside of a hazard.  Whenever they are considering playing from inside of a hazard, they always have their wits about them and remember to take those practice swings outside of the hazard.  Him getting flustered from the first poor shot is what I believe led to the fiasco that followed.  Note, though, that I'm still not willing to call him a cheater, but him even flirting with the ground in the hazard like that was just ... unusual, is all.

I saw it happen live on TV with my wife and son. We replayed it at least 10 times on DVR. We were actually having a discussion about his other possible options, when during one of replays I noticed it looked a hell of a lot like Ernie grounded the club. We have that zoom option on the TV. I still say it was questionable. It didn't look like the type of swing to test that grass. It takes a lot to call one of these guys a cheater. When I think of cheaters, I think of Lee Janzen back in 2001 wiping that water from the fairway, or Casey Martin driving a cart. The rules official didn't show up until AFTER Ernie's first try.

[jbishop15]

I saw it happen live on TV with my wife and son. We replayed it at least 10 times on DVR. We were actually having a discussion about his other possible options, when during one of replays I noticed it looked a hell of a lot like Ernie grounded the club. We have that zoom option on the TV. I still say it was questionable. It didn't look like the type of swing to test that grass. It takes a lot to call one of these guys a cheater. When I think of cheaters, I think of Lee Janzen back in 2001 wiping that water from the fairway, or Casey Martin driving a cart. The rules official didn't show up until AFTER Ernie's first try.

Okay, this is off topic as hell, but you think Casey Martin is a cheater?? Jesus.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

I saw it happen live on TV with my wife and son. We replayed it at least 10 times on DVR. We were actually having a discussion about his other possible options, when during one of replays I noticed it looked a hell of a lot like Ernie grounded the club. We have that zoom option on the TV. I still say it was questionable. It didn't look like the type of swing to test that grass. It takes a lot to call one of these guys a cheater. When I think of cheaters, I think of Lee Janzen back in 2001 wiping that water from the fairway, or Casey Martin driving a cart.

The rules official didn't show up until AFTER Ernie's first try.

Okay, this is off topic as hell, but you think Casey Martin is a cheater?? Jesus.

It is off topic.  Don't take the bait.