Euros Complain U.S. Fans Too Boozed Up

[GolfLug]

That's true. On the other hand, if every tournament were run like the Masters, I have to imagine it would hurt the game by driving away a large segment of the audience. The Masters being a once a year event is charming, but that kind of stuffiness on a weekly basis wouldn't have as broad of an appeal. I know I wouldn't want to watch golf like that.

That's the thing. Quality and large quantities are inversely proportional. Which one is the tourney after?

I would bet the Masters has some of the cheapest beer prices on tour, yet you don't hear fans yelling stupid thngs. They seem to encourage good behavior, and have little tolerance of bad behavior. The beer will make some people act like idiots, but the Masters is an example of a tournament where people drink, and don't get out of hand.

Right, they have a solution and implement it when they want to and don't mind the cost of people for enforcement. Alcohol or not. It is not that complicated.

[turtleback]

I'm not sure if you visit europe much, but that statement isn't true. Golf is pretty accessible if you wish to play. I wouldn't comment on the accessibility in Asia as I'm not familiar with their situation as it pertains to golf.

I think our view is based on comments we have read from Europeans here about having to pass tests and have handicap cards to just to be able to play, which here in the states we would regard as barriers to playing.  Perhaps those things were overstated?

I think it's education that is needed. Post signs around the tournament, begin a marketing campaign similar to the Tee it Forward or Play Faster bits. Teach people that it's not proper to act that way at a golf venue. More rules or more security are not the answers.

I haven't really noticed any positive effect of those campaigns.

People know that it is an inappropriate way to behave on the golf course.  They do not need education, IMO, they need enforcement.  People behave badly because they can get away with it.5

[Gunther]

I think our view is based on comments we have read from Europeans here about having to pass tests and have handicap cards to just to be able to play, which here in the states we would regard as barriers to playing.  Perhaps those things were overstated? I haven't really noticed any positive effect of those campaigns.   People know that it is an inappropriate way to behave on the golf course.  They do not need education, IMO, they need enforcement.  People behave badly because they can get away with it.5

The point is, you cannot enforce what is not against the rules.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunther


The point is, you cannot enforce what is not against the rules.

And my point is that it already IS against the rules and the rules are not being enforced.  Here is an excerpt from this year's US Open guide for people attending:

Quote:

• Spectators will be subject to expulsion and the loss of ticket privileges for the following breaches of etiquette:
  • Making rude, vulgar or other inappropriate comments or gestures.
  • Verbal or physical harassment of players, volunteers, officials or spectators.
  • Distracting a player or any disruption of play.
  • Behavior that is unruly, disruptive, unsafe or illegal in nature.
  • Failing to follow the instructions of a championship official, volunteer or security personnel.

In my book that is plenty to start expelling people who scream out nonsense right after someone hits.

Arguably it is rude to do so.

It certainly is pretty harassing to the people nearby when someone screams right next to them

And it certainly falls into the unruly and disruptive category

So, three different bases for expelling the bad actors.

My other point is that so-called "education" never stops bad behavior, because the people behaving badly already now that they are behaving badly.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Good grief.

Here's a better idea. Why not just hold the knuckleheads who misbehave accountable?!

That's already what they're trying to do though, right? The whole impetus of the thread is that it's not working.

I can only imagine that it's not easy to spot and track down a couple of *******s when they can fall back into a crowd of thousands.

(I'm not saying I agree with the 3 drink ticket thing, just that I don't think the answer is as simple as saying "let's throw out people who yell shit." That's already the policy, and I've yet to hear a solution for doing that better.)

The problem is that they aren't really doing anything.  It took something major for a patron to be ejected when I worked at the International.  I think that they need to be a bit more strict with the penalties.  I'd like to see a 2 strikes and out policy.  Easy to manage.  Each patron has a badge that is displayed in plain sight.  Give each security person a hole punch.  One complaint, punch his badge, second complaint, escort him to the gate and confiscate the badge.  Easy-peasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

But that's the problem, they're not. If they were trying, they'd be tossing the knucklehead out each and every time someone acted out. They don't.

Even a child figures out quickly that the threat of a consequence, without any real chance that it'll be followed through upon is no consequence at all.

But you ignored my next sentence. How you do find the knuckleheads in a moving sea of golf fans? It's not like in a baseball broadcast where they can find a fan who threw the home run back on the field or interfered with a player trying to make a catch through replay.

They'd have to see the person yelling (which they can't do just by watching the broadcast), track them down through a hoard of fans, and physically escort them off the course. That would require actual security personnel, not just random volunteers, at every single tee box tasked solely with throwing out knuckleheads. Then, of course, you risk false positives if you're trying to track down people who fit a clothing or voice description.

I don't know much about how security works at golf events (do they require and track IDs of fans at either the time of purchase or at entrance?), but if you wanted to then prevent them from being admitted to future events, you'd have to put their ID on some sort of no-entrance list, which would require huge amounts of data and coordination.

"Try harder," to me, is not an actual solution. This thread is light on actual solutions.

Each hole at a Tour event has from 6 to 12 hole marshals working each day of the competition.  There are security people stationed around the course.  Each marshal and each security person has a radio.  If a marshal has a problem fan, he just has to call his hole captain who calls security and in 5 minutes the fan is being handled.  It really is that easy, if only they would act on it.

[BallStriker]

Europeans complaining about something?  Wow, that's a shocker.........

[DaveP043]

Each hole at a Tour event has from 6 to 12 hole marshals working each day of the competition.  There are security people stationed around the course.  Each marshal and each security person has a radio.  If a marshal has a problem fan, he just has to call his hole captain who calls security and in 5 minutes the fan is being handled.

This bold part of the quote is the only place I've had a different experience.  I've volunteered at 4 US Opens, and typically only one volunteer (the "hole captain") on each hole has a radio.  That doesn't make it impossible to have someone removed, but its not always as simple as a single radio call.  That said, I've had good experiences with the spectators, I've even had a couple of guys helping me return the ropes to their proper position after a player hit from the weeds.  I was the only marshall for 50 yards either direction, and was really grateful for their help.

[HawkNballs]

They should have undercover security at these events to toss the azzhats that can't handle their alcohol.  At the Seahawks games... there is undercover security dressed as 49er fans to make sure the Hawks' fans don't cross the line.  Probably not a bad idea.

I HATE when people scream jibberish after tee shots. Europeans seem to act more like gentlemen (and ladies) while attending events it seems.

[turtleback]

They should have undercover security at these events to toss the azzhats that can't handle their alcohol.  At the Seahawks games... there is undercover security dressed as 49er fans to make sure the Hawks' fans don't cross the line.  Probably not a bad idea.

The logistics make it much harder in golf, because one person can cover a much larger percent of the venue even at a football game than they can on a golf course.

[Rick Martin]

They should have undercover security at these events to toss the azzhats that can't handle their alcohol.  At the Seahawks games... there is undercover security dressed as 49er fans to make sure the Hawks' fans don't cross the line.  Probably not a bad idea.

Yeah, PGA should send out fans dressed up as Ian Poulter into the gallery and draw out the idiots.....

[caniac6]

Every two years in the fall, I wish Poulter was American.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Each hole at a Tour event has from 6 to 12 hole marshals working each day of the competition.  There are security people stationed around the course.  Each marshal and each security person has a radio.  If a marshal has a problem fan, he just has to call his hole captain who calls security and in 5 minutes the fan is being handled.

This bold part of the quote is the only place I've had a different experience.  I've volunteered at 4 US Opens, and typically only one volunteer (the "hole captain") on each hole has a radio.  That doesn't make it impossible to have someone removed, but its not always as simple as a single radio call.  That said, I've had good experiences with the spectators, I've even had a couple of guys helping me return the ropes to their proper position after a player hit from the weeds.  I was the only marshall for 50 yards either direction, and was really grateful for their help.

With one exception the most intoxicated person I ever saw in my four years was Peter Jacobsen.  He missed the cut, but he still hung around for the weekend, partying in a corporate box above the 17th green, the hole where I was working.  He just got happy and heckled several of the players (it was all good natured) as they walked across the road to the 18th tee.

We did have one incident where a drunk had to be escorted away, but I was working on the tee when he was trundled off from the green area.

[Mac62]

...Not sure I have much company with this way of thinking, but honestly I don't go to concerts or pro or college football games anymore.  Had it up to my eyeballs long ago with a drunk a-hole sitting in every other seat.  Can easily watch a game from home, drink a couple of pints, eat better food and actually enjoy the game.

You've got company right here.  The only time I ever go to a football game is if somebody has free tickets - and not even always then.  Fighting the traffic in and out of the stadium, the hassle (and ridiculous cost) of parking, the cost of food/drinks, uncomfortable seats surrounded by drunken idiots - no thanks.  I can sit at home in my comfy recliner with a beer that didn't cost me 12 bucks, I don't have to wait 10 minutes to use the bathroom, I get close-ups and instant replay, and the only drunken @holes I'm surrou nded by are those of my own choosing!

[Rick Martin]

You've got company right here.  The only time I ever go to a football game is if somebody has free tickets - and not even always then.  Fighting the traffic in and out of the stadium, the hassle (and ridiculous cost) of parking, the cost of food/drinks, uncomfortable seats surrounded by drunken idiots - no thanks.  I can sit at home in my comfy recliner with a beer that didn't cost me 12 bucks, I don't have to wait 10 minutes to use the bathroom, I get close-ups and instant replay, and the only drunken @holes I'm surrounded by are those of my own choosing!

Funny you say this because I'm in the same belief. I've been season ticket holder for NFL Buccaneers and right now I'm unloading several tickets (high demand team NYG, Dallas, Chicago) because I've gotten tired of the hassle factor.  This will likely be my last season as a season ticket holder since the games now are all being broadcasted - no blackouts.

[Quadhole]

Most people I know would call them idiots. I guess I know only 2% of people. I think your generalizations are way over exaggerated. I think it is primarily the sporting culture in America. You take a guy who only plays golf a few times a year, but is probably a huge Football fan, dump him into a golf event, give him a few beers he's going to regress to how he acts while watching other sporting events. He's going to be loud and obnoxious. He's probably 95% other sports fan, 5% golf fan. It has little to do with social economical issues or how much money Europeans make versus Americans. It has more to do with people not understanding the golfing culture versus other sports.

I expressed wrong. The 98% are sports fans in general and idiots, like you mention are 2% OR even less at golf events. For the most part, golf fans are great. It is the Nascar guy with nothing to do and a reason to get drunk. Or a super fan hoping to get the limelight. I wish I knew what they get out of it. If they want to stop it, put it back on the fans. There is always a group of people they are hiding in, not friends either. Tell people to snitch and reward them for it.

[Scotsclaff]

I expressed wrong. The 98% are sports fans in general and idiots, like you mention are 2% OR even less at golf events. For the most part, golf fans are great. It is the Nascar guy with nothing to do and a reason to get drunk. Or a super fan hoping to get the limelight. I wish I knew what they get out of it.

If they want to stop it, put it back on the fans. There is always a group of people they are hiding in, not friends either.

Tell people to snitch and reward them for it.

Would you snitch???

I certainly wouldn't, that's worse than being the drunk.

[Mac62]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadhole

I expressed wrong. The 98% are sports fans in general and idiots, like you mention are 2% OR even less at golf events. For the most part, golf fans are great. It is the Nascar guy with nothing to do and a reason to get drunk. Or a super fan hoping to get the limelight. I wish I knew what they get out of it.

If they want to stop it, put it back on the fans. There is always a group of people they are hiding in, not friends either.

Tell people to snitch and reward them for it.

Would you snitch???

I certainly wouldn't, that's worse than being the drunk.

I'd gladly snitch on an obnoxious drunk, with absolutely no remorse.  Having a good time and enjoying a few drinks, no problem; getting stupid drunk, loud and boisterous to the point that you're annoying everybody around you, that's a problem.  I wouldn't feel the slightest bit of guilt being the one who ratted them down and got them booted out.  Other fans paid for their tickets too, and they have the right to enjoy the event without some slobbering moron screaming "MASHED POTATOES!!!!" in their ear as he spills his beer all over everybody around him.

[joekelly]

A drunk on the golf course, whether a  player or a fan, is really of little concern to me.  I can walk away.  But when the drunk gets into his car and becomes a menace to society, i do take great exception. Would be nice if at exit gate, one cop with breath analyzer machine stood watch and by random selection took a few samples.  Or sampled everyone.  Off to the pokey for a few.  And with plenty of onlookers.