What is your opinion on ride along fees?

[rkim291968]

Most courses I play charges for non-golfer ride along.  It makes sense to me.  The courses are trying to make a buck, and in some cases, to stay in business.  It takes money to keep a fleet of carts and we are living in a capitalist society.   I'd be surprised if a course does not charge.

[dkolo]

The liability issue looms large, as I found out at an area golf course.

I hadn't played the course in a couple of years, in part because two water hazards had turned into marshy bogs with high vegetation which impeded play on the holes. A friend told me the place had been really cleaned up, so I went to check it out.

I started to walk out onto the course, and the starter - a retired police officer - came out and stopped me. He said I couldn't go out onto the course - for liability issues - unless I was playing. I said I just wanted to check out the improvements, and he threatened to have me arrested for trespassing if I didn't leave.

I left, and haven't been back since. So much for "growing the game."

I had the same reaction. My mother had had big oral surgery last year (all of her teeth taken out), and was hopped up on meds and in a lot of pain, but she'd been getting all bummed being cooped up inside her house for the better part of a week convalescing so I took her out golfing with me, just to walk with me and enjoy the scenery / get some air. I went to a dumpy 9 holer in late twilight time (5ish) with an empty course. Literally, we were the only people there to play. They wouldn't let her walk. Never mind that she'd never swung a club and didn't have clubs. I had to pay for a greens fee and rent a bag for her and throw half of my clubs randomly in her bag so she'd have the requisite number of clubs. If it hadn't been such a long drive or there had been a nearby fallback option, I'd have told them to eff themselves, but I wound up just eating my pride and taking her out there. But it's exactly what you said: how can you grow the game if you don't give people a chance to understand first hand why they should find it interesting? Watching it on TV doesn't do it justice and the learning curve and required effort to get good enough to be on the course is a huge commitment. You need to get them inspired enough to want to learn to play. Taking them as a walk along is the best way to do it.

My brother and I got it from the other direction not too long ago when he brought his girl out to play with us despite her never having played or swung a club before a driving range session that day. She picked up on most holes and had about three dozen ratty balls to work with and didn't hold anyone up, not to mention that fact that it was already a 6 hour round based on the log jam ahead of us we kept pace with the whole time, but I still fielded comments about her "not belonging on a golf course." Come on.

[jgreen85]

Sure.... it must be a money grab.  Courses are closing all over because they have made so much money from charging ride alongs that the owners can retire.

If you had ever worked at a public access, daily fee course you wouldn't make such a cynical, I might even say short-sighted statement.  It's true that courses will do all they can to improve the bottom line, but often enough that bottom line isn't exactly equivalent to what Bill Gates makes.  They have to stay competitive while still making a profit, and in the retail world that is almost always a tricky balancing act.

It's not like ride along customers are a huge part of their sales plan.  I could work for a week without ever seeing one, and even then it was more likely to be a small child who could just squeeze between the two players for no extra charge.  If my home course brought in $75 in a week on such sales, it was an aberration.

if it's immaterial to the course's bottom line, then why charge for it in the first place? As mentioned, this is very shortsighted on the part of the course. Fortunately, I live in PHX, so courses/choices are abundant. Course could make their money back with additional golfers and the snack cart person + 19th hole + a golfer has the option of playing more golf by being able to have their sig other accompany them.

I suppose the course could feel like they have you by the balls since you drove there and possibly even pre-paid for your tee time. Unless this policy is posted on the website, money grab imo.

[MSDOGS1976]

When they do charge, which is most of the time, they just charge the normal fee for sharing a cart - certainly no green fees for a non player.  That would be over the top.

That's normally the way its done where ever I have played. Sometimes I got a free pass when taking a nephew just to ride along at my private club.

[saevel25]

if it's immaterial to the course's bottom line, then why charge for it in the first place? As mentioned, this is very shortsighted on the part of the course.

Because it isn't. Golf carts require repair and upkeep. Golfers beat the hell out of carts. Some need replacing batteries or need fuel.

Also it depends on if they own the carts outright or lease them. If you own them outright then you need to make back that money you spent on them.

Losing 1 golf cart would cost the course $7000-$9000 to replace.

I suppose the course could feel like they have you by the balls since you drove there and possibly even pre-paid for your tee time. Unless this policy is posted on the website, money grab imo.

To me I see it as two scenarios.

First you have 1 or 3 people, and adding a 2nd or 4th doesn't cost you extra because an actual golfer is using the cart.

Second, you have 2 people, and adding  3rd basically is handing a cart out with no form of compensation for using it.

In the first case, I think a course could be nice enough to allow a 2nd or 4th to just ride along. The second I can see the courses side on this that they are getting nothing for the use of the cart.

Still, how often does this happen? If it happens maybe once in a while, I think it is better to take the high road and just look at it as being nice to your customer base.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Sure.... it must be a money grab.  Courses are closing all over because they have made so much money from charging ride alongs that the owners can retire.

If you had ever worked at a public access, daily fee course you wouldn't make such a cynical, I might even say short-sighted statement.  It's true that courses will do all they can to improve the bottom line, but often enough that bottom line isn't exactly equivalent to what Bill Gates makes.  They have to stay competitive while still making a profit, and in the retail world that is almost always a tricky balancing act.

It's not like ride along customers are a huge part of their sales plan.  I could work for a week without ever seeing one, and even then it was more likely to be a small child who could just squeeze between the two players for no extra charge.  If my home course brought in $75 in a week on such sales, it was an aberration.

if it's immaterial to the course's bottom line, then why charge for it in the first place? As mentioned, this is very shortsighted on the part of the course. Fortunately, I live in PHX, so courses/choices are abundant. Course could make their money back with additional golfers and the snack cart person + 19th hole + a golfer has the option of playing more golf by being able to have their sig other accompany them.

I suppose the course could feel like they have you by the balls since you drove there and possibly even pre-paid for your tee time. Unless this policy is posted on the website, money grab imo.

I don't know about Phoenix, but in talking to beverage cart attendants in places I've played, less than half of all players buy from them.  Same goes for the 19th hole, and of those who do, most will just buy a single soda or beer and call it good.  That doesn't even remotely make up for a free cart ride.

This is the first time I've ever seen anyone gripe at this charge.  If a player has to pay to ride, then why does it seem so odd that that a non-player would be expected to do the same?  That is just another sign of people feeling an unwarranted sense of entitlement.  If a person uses a cart on the golf course, there is a fee attached.  It doesn't make any difference if the person is playing or not.

[MrFlipper]

I see both sides of this issue. If folks were honest about riders just sitting on the cart, staying out of everyone's way, that's fine. But I'd bet that of the maybe 20 times this has come up since I started playing 40+ years ago, maybe 1 or 2 was like that.

The others were mostly boyfriend/girlfriend (who doesn't play) that started ok then she gets bored, wants to hit some balls (poorly) then he wants to give her lessons. Very slow and annoying. Or it's a small family with one set of clubs and pretty soon they are all hitting shots. Also very slow and annoying.

Charging riding fees are fine by me. It limits the above type of stuff and at least lets the course recoup some money for the expense of the use of the cart by a non-player.

[Hatchman]

I see both sides of this issue. If folks were honest about riders just sitting on the cart, staying out of everyone's way, that's fine. But I'd bet that of the maybe 20 times this has come up since I started playing 40+ years ago, maybe 1 or 2 was like that.  The others were mostly boyfriend/girlfriend (who doesn't play) that started ok then she gets bored, wants to hit some balls (poorly) then he wants to give her lessons. Very slow and annoying. Or it's a small family with one set of clubs and pretty soon they are all hitting shots. Also very slow and annoying. Charging riding fees are fine by me. It limits the above type of stuff and at least lets the course recoup some money for the expense of the use of the cart by a non-player.

Agree. Likewise around here. Also, generally, the beverage or consession cart is separate from course. Check with the course to see its policy and remember to avoid those you don't like or agree with. There are others on the course tying to play as well. :).

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlipper

I see both sides of this issue. If folks were honest about riders just sitting on the cart, staying out of everyone's way, that's fine. But I'd bet that of the maybe 20 times this has come up since I started playing 40+ years ago, maybe 1 or 2 was like that.

The others were mostly boyfriend/girlfriend (who doesn't play) that started ok then she gets bored, wants to hit some balls (poorly) then he wants to give her lessons. Very slow and annoying. Or it's a small family with one set of clubs and pretty soon they are all hitting shots. Also very slow and annoying.

Charging riding fees are fine by me. It limits the above type of stuff and at least lets the course recoup some money for the expense of the use of the cart by a non-player.

Agree. Likewise around here. Also, generally, the beverage or consession cart is separate from course. Check with the course to see its policy and remember to avoid those you don't like or agree with. There are others on the course tying to play as well. :).

This is another good point.  On my old home course the on course beverage service and the restaurant are franchised out.  They contract to pay the course a standard fee, but all of their proceeds go to them, not to the course.

[GolfLug]

First time I got charged for a rider fee, when I did know of it as thing, I thought a money grab and was not going to go back to the course. But I have changed my tune since. There are courses here who don't care to charge on late afternoon, non-busy days. I think 'nice of them' but with no entitlement. Now wife plays anytime she rides so a non issue.

Off topic: BTW, walking nine holes with my a carry bag in the afternoon, is my new love!

[Hatchman]

First time I got charged for a rider fee, when I did know of it as thing, I thought a money grab and was not going to go back to the course. But I have changed my tune since. There are courses here who don't care to charge on late afternoon, non-busy days. I think 'nice of them' but with no entitlement. Now wife plays anytime she rides so a non issue. Off topic: BTW, walking nine holes with my a carry bag in the afternoon, is my new love!

Awsome. Have fun walking. Pete Dye's, VB National??

[GaijinGolfer]

Im fine with ride-along fees.  Its another person taking up space on the course and if someone has a rider, thats another cart or more foot traffic out on the course.  Personally, I dont understand what someone would want to go along with a golfer of average ability and watch them play.

On the courses that I play, theres quite a few wives who tag along with their husbands when they play.  None of the husbands are all that good and Ive even see instances where the women are pushing a baby in a stroller the whole time.  Its quite comical to watch, really.  Its like, do you really not have a life that you cant find something better to do or are you that insecure that you feel like you need to tag along with your husband to make sure that he isnt cheating on you?  Honestly, if my wife told me that she wanted to go with me and watch me play golf, Id flat out tell her no and tell her that she can find something better to do.  Luckily, my wife would never ask because she thinks its lame too.  Hey, to each their own though, right?

[Golfingdad]

Im fine with ride-along fees.  Its another person taking up space on the course and if someone has a rider, thats another cart or more foot traffic out on the course.  Personally, I dont understand what someone would want to go along with a golfer of average ability and watch them play.

On the courses that I play, theres quite a few wives who tag along with their husbands when they play.  None of the husbands are all that good and Ive even see instances where the women are pushing a baby in a stroller the whole time.  Its quite comical to watch, really.  Its like, do you really not have a life that you cant find something better to do or are you that insecure that you feel like you need to tag along with your husband to make sure that he isnt cheating on you?  Honestly, if my wife told me that she wanted to go with me and watch me play golf, Id flat out tell her no and tell her that she can find something better to do.  Luckily, my wife would never ask because she thinks its lame too.  Hey, to each their own though, right?

Heaven forbid that a wife and husband might actually enjoy spending time together?!?!?!

[Mr. Desmond]

Sure.... it must be a money grab.  Courses are closing all over because they have made so much money from charging ride alongs that the owners can retire.

If you had ever worked at a public access, daily fee course you wouldn't make such a cynical, I might even say short-sighted statement.  It's true that courses will do all they can to improve the bottom line, but often enough that bottom line isn't exactly equivalent to what Bill Gates makes.  They have to stay competitive while still making a profit, and in the retail world that is almost always a tricky balancing act.

It's not like ride along customers are a huge part of their sales plan.  I could work for a week without ever seeing one, and even then it was more likely to be a small child who could just squeeze between the two players for no extra charge.  If my home course brought in $75 in a week on such sales, it was an aberration.

Welllllllll,

I do not see my statement as cynical or short-sighted. I am a businessman. I see the practice as bad business by the course and bad pub -- I stated the long term view. Think of the ride-along as a revenue enhancer who purchases drinks and snacks on the course, drinks at the 19th hole, and tips for employees. Maybe not all, but one can encourage the behavior you want to see...

[Jeremie Boop]

Most courses I play charges for non-golfer ride along.  It makes sense to me.  The courses are trying to make a buck, and in some cases, to stay in business.  It takes money to keep a fleet of carts and we are living in a capitalist society.   I'd be surprised if a course does not charge.

I've taken riders along with me, girlfriend or children, and never been charged for them to ride. If they tried to charge me I'd have just walked. It's not exactly doubling the wear and tear on a cart if there is a second person in it.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Sure.... it must be a money grab.  Courses are closing all over because they have made so much money from charging ride alongs that the owners can retire.

If you had ever worked at a public access, daily fee course you wouldn't make such a cynical, I might even say short-sighted statement.  It's true that courses will do all they can to improve the bottom line, but often enough that bottom line isn't exactly equivalent to what Bill Gates makes.  They have to stay competitive while still making a profit, and in the retail world that is almost always a tricky balancing act.

It's not like ride along customers are a huge part of their sales plan.  I could work for a week without ever seeing one, and even then it was more likely to be a small child who could just squeeze between the two players for no extra charge.  If my home course brought in $75 in a week on such sales, it was an aberration.

Welllllllll,

I do not see my statement as cynical or short-sighted. I am a businessman. I see the practice as bad business by the course and bad pub -- I stated the long term view. Think of the ride-along as a revenue enhancer who purchases drinks and snacks on the course, drinks at the 19th hole, and tips for employees. Maybe not all, but one can encourage the behavior you want to see...

As I said above, on the course I worked at the course got nothing from food and beverage sales, and that's not really uncommon.  They often franchise it to a restaurant, because they know better how to manage a food service enterprise.  Giving free rides brings nothing back to the course.

You didn't answer my other question - Why should non golfers get a better deal than the players do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

Most courses I play charges for non-golfer ride along.  It makes sense to me.  The courses are trying to make a buck, and in some cases, to stay in business.  It takes money to keep a fleet of carts and we are living in a capitalist society.   I'd be surprised if a course does not charge.

I've taken riders along with me, girlfriend or children, and never been charged for them to ride. If they tried to charge me I'd have just walked. It's not exactly doubling the wear and tear on a cart if there is a second person in it.

Courses I'm familiar with only sent out a maximum of 2 carts for a foursome.  If only two players are riding, then only one cart goes out.  If there is a ride along, that necessitates an additional cart for someone.  Again, if the player has to pay, then why the free ride for a non player?

The fees are based on two riders per cart to cover the costs of leasing or buying the carts, and maintaining them.  Every time a cart goes out with just a single rider it's usually just a break even situation.  They will do that for a player who is also paying green fees, but not for a freeloader, and justifiably so.

[Golfingdad]

I could work for a week without ever seeing one, and even then it was more likely to be a small child who could just squeeze between the two players for no extra charge.

Maybe not all, but one can encourage the behavior you want to see...

I like this statement, specifically as it relates to the above portion of @Fourputt 's post, even if I'm veering ever so slightly OT here.  My home course has a policy where juniors under 17 can not only ride along, but actually play for free all day on weekdays and on weekends after noon.  My son just turned 6 and it was this very policy that tipped the scales in favor of me choosing this course.  I also see a lot of kids out there all of the time and the course thrives.

Veering back on topic, I don't mind rider fees.  I fully understand them, and have paid them a couple of times for my wife while on vacation in Hawaii (The picture on my user page is from one of those rounds).  (And to prove a previous poster above correct; while she never intended on playing entire holes or anything, she did hit a couple of shots here and there ;))

Also, just last year we went to Palm Springs and they told us that the rider fee would only be charged if we ended up with a foursome and they had to pull out a thrid cart.  Perfectly understandable.  However, we did have 4, and we used 3 carts, but they didn't make us pay.  They were cool about it, or just forgot, I don't know. :)

[rkim291968]

Welllllllll,

I do not see my statement as cynical or short-sighted. I am a businessman. I see the practice as bad business by the course and bad pub -- I stated the long term view. Think of the ride-along as a revenue enhancer who purchases drinks and snacks on the course, drinks at the 19th hole, and tips for employees. Maybe not all, but one can encourage the behavior you want to see...

Typical ride along I've seen are girlfriend or kid, almost no exception.  Neither is money spender, tipping type.   Just my observations and YMMV.