The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[David in FL]

We have no choice in this matter. :whistle:

It boggles the mind that this simple point eludes some people. With the possible exception of generating some awareness in the group immediately in front of them, faster players do not affect the pace of play of anyone else on the entire golf course. Slow players affect every single golfer behind them ..and can continue to do so even after the slow group has finally finished and gone home.

[RGoosen]

You do know people move at different paces right? Why do they have to conform to your pace?  Why don't you conform to theirs instead? What makes you right and them wrong?   Golf is supposed to be a recreational activity to be enjoyed and for many people that means a slower pace than everyday life.   Some people are enjoying the weather, the outdoors, etc. and don't feel the need to rush through every shot likes its a race. Maybe you need to take a step back and enjoy your surroundings instead of racing to the finish line.

I am fine with that if they don't tee off before 10am on the weekend. Leave the first 2-3 hours for those that prefer to play at a normal pace or have places to be. The snails can play later in the day b/c that have nothing else to do.

[pumaAttack]

We have no choice in this matter.

It boggles the mind that this simple point eludes some people.

With the possible exception of generating some awareness in the group immediately in front of them, faster players do not affect the pace of play of anyone else on the entire golf course. Slow players affect every single golfer behind them ..and can continue to do so even after the slow group has finally finished and gone home.

These are pretty ignorant statements.

Just because you don't feel the "rush" of going through groups does not mean it doesn't affect other groups.   You hitting up on groups, rushing to the next tee and breathing down their necks does affect their game and their leisure time.

And when a twosome cuts in front of every group that surely affects the entire course.  Maybe you don't feel it but it happens.  Your playing through slower groups just slows down the pace of play for the rest of the groups as they wait for you.  Do that for a few holes and the build up, waiting for you, grows.

So basically what you are saying it is fine because you personally never feel the affect....

[Jon Hoover]

You do know people move at different paces right?

Why do they have to conform to your pace?  Why don't you conform to theirs instead?

What makes you right and them wrong?   Golf is supposed to be a recreational activity to be enjoyed and for many people that means a slower pace than everyday life.   Some people are enjoying the weather, the outdoors, etc. and don't feel the need to rush through every shot likes its a race.

Maybe you need to take a step back and enjoy your surroundings instead of racing to the finish line.

You enjoy golf do you? and you want people to continue making and maintaining golf course I'd suppose. So we need new people to start golfing and to keep playing so that the courses have revenue to keep the sport alive. Well a 2005 study by former USGA technical director Frank Thomas found slow play to be the No. 1 obstacle to growing the game. So if you love the sport of golf how about we do what we can to keep growing the game so future generations can love the sport also.

[pumaAttack]

You enjoy golf do you? and you want people to continue making and maintaining golf course I'd suppose. So we need new people to start golfing and to keep playing so that the courses have revenue to keep the sport alive. Well a 2005 study by former USGA technical director Frank Thomas found slow play to be the No. 1 obstacle to growing the game. So if you love the sport of golf how about we do what we can to keep growing the game so future generations can love the sport also.

No I am saying people are making selfish comments about how perfect they are and that everybody should conform to their ways.

I am not condoning slow play but people need to realize they are not the only ones out there.  I am all for playing faster and ready golf, but you can't universally put a timer on a sport people with different skill levels and enjoyment levels share a common course.

[DaveP043]

These are pretty ignorant statements.

Just because you don't feel the "rush" of going through groups does not mean it doesn't affect other groups.   You hitting up on groups, rushing to the next tee and breathing down their necks does affect their game and their leisure time.

And when a twosome cuts in front of every group that surely affects the entire course.  Maybe you don't feel it but it happens.  Your playing through slower groups just slows down the pace of play for the rest of the groups as they wait for you.  Do that for a few holes and the build up, waiting for you, grows.

So basically what you are saying it is fine because you personally never feel the affect....

I haven't read about anyone playing through, or a twosome being rude enough to cut in front of others, rushing to a tee in order to breathe down someone's neck, anything of the like.  Most of the discussion I've read has focused on playing more efficiently, so that the pace is improved without having to "rush".   Its not difficult to play at a nice pace and still enjoy the great outdoors and the company of friends.  If a group of players can't keep up with a reasonable pace, they need to learn how to do it.  And if a golf club  defining a "reasonable pace" means "putting a timer" on players, I believe that's the right thing to do.

Individuals don't get to define the appropriate code of conduct for themselves, society as a whole does that, and government enforces that code of conduct in the form of laws.  Individual golfers don't get to define what a "reasonable pace" means, the society of golfers as a whole does, and golf courses should enforce it.

[RFKFREAK]

heres the rub - ive never played a round at the max PoP (usually 415-430) without there being delays.

You mean like when that delay is me?

[pumaAttack]

I haven't read about anyone playing through, or a twosome being rude enough to cut in front of others, rushing to a tee in order to breathe down someone's neck, anything of the like.  Most of the discussion I've read has focused on playing more efficiently, so that the pace is improved without having to "rush".   Its not difficult to play at a nice pace and still enjoy the great outdoors and the company of friends.  If a group of players can't keep up with a reasonable pace, they need to learn how to do it.  And if a golf club  defining a "reasonable pace" means "putting a timer" on players, I believe that's the right thing to do.

Individuals don't get to define the appropriate code of conduct for themselves, society as a whole does that, and government enforces that code of conduct in the form of laws.  Individual golfers don't get to define what a "reasonable pace" means, the society of golfers as a whole does, and golf courses should enforce it.

Then you better get in line because you are the outlier, not the norm.

[mvmac]

No I am saying people are making selfish comments about how perfect they are and that everybody should conform to their ways.

Not seeing that at all. I think people that know how to play ready golf are frustrated with slow play and the lack of awareness some golfers have when it comes pace of play.

[Jon Hoover]

Then you better get in line because you are the outlier, not the norm.

If your not helping improve the problem then your part of it. Everyone should have an attitude that they could play faster, the idea people have that they play fast enough so their is no need to improve is what causes slow play in the first place. If people can't realize that then they are just bring the whole sport down with selfish desires to play at what ever pace they deem appropriate. I always try to play the course as quickly as possible I relish the times when I play rounds under 3hrs as should we all, not reserve ourselves that a round will take 4+ hrs every time we play. If you want to spend time outdoors enjoying the atmosphere then do it but reserve the course for doing what its there for, playing golf.

Instead of calling people speed daemons or say they are rushing you should think wow that person is helping the sport as a whole by improving the pace of play problem.

[pumaAttack]

Not seeing that at all. I think people that know how to play ready golf are frustrated with slow play and the lack of awareness some golfers have when it comes pace of play.

You are missing the point.  Why do certain people get to depict how other golfers play their own games?  Why do they have to speed up play during a leisure round?  If you hate slow play, go at times where the course is more open or join a private course.  Do not expect other people to change their ways for you.

If your not helping improve the problem then your part of it. Everyone should have an attitude that they could play faster, the idea people have that they play fast enough so their is no need to improve is what causes slow play in the first place. If people can't realize that then they are just bring the whole sport down with selfish desires to play at what ever pace they deem appropriate. I always try to play the course as quickly as possible I relish the times when I play rounds under 3hrs as should we all, not reserve ourselves that a round will take 4+ hrs every time we play. If you want to spend time outdoors enjoying the atmosphere then do it but reserve the course for doing what its there for, playing golf.

Why does everybody have to conform to your idealistic view of golf?  Maybe everybody should slow down and enjoy their time on the course more.  Again, why do you personally get to set the rules for how others spend their leisure time?  I think the real question is why is it a goal to finish so fast?  Do you not like being outside on the course?  I think thats a very odd mentality to rush through a game of golf so much that you feel accomplished when you post a fast round, rather than a low scoring round.

I don't hear hockey players saying they wished their games ended faster.  Or football players wanting to shave 15 minutes off their flag football game.

[David in FL]

Just because you don't feel the "rush" of going through groups does not mean it doesn't affect other groups.

If a group is courteous enough to allow us to play through, we do so quickly, moving to get out of their way, even at the risk of rushing our game, so as not to delay, or inconvenience them. Courtesy begets courtesy. [quote name="pumaAttack" url="/t/84345/whats-the-rush/234#post_1203207"] You hitting up on groups, rushing to the next tee and breathing down their necks does affect their game and their leisure time.   [/quote] I've never knowingly hit into another group in over 45 years of playing this game. If I finish a hole before the group ahead of me is off the tee box, I wait well behind them. [quote name="pumaAttack" url="/t/84345/whats-the-rush/234#post_1203207"] Just because you don't feel the "rush" of going through groups does not mean it doesn't affect other groups.   [/quote] Absolute nonsense. How do I know? Because I'm the first one to offer to let a faster single or group through if there's room to do so. My 3-some actually let a smoking fast 5-some through last week. They were gone in 5 minutes and we never saw them again. We didn't lose any time off our round at all. No one has EVER argued that faster players should be allowed to play through if there's not room to do so. Unfortunately, too many people think that just because they can still catch a glimpse of the group ahead of them every now and then, that they're keeping pace. It's worth mentioning that pace of play, whether fast or slow should not be confused with poor behavior. They're two different discussions.

[Jon Hoover]

You are missing the point.  Why do certain people get to depict how other golfers play their own games?  Why do they have to speed up play during a leisure round?  If you hate slow play, go at times where the course is more open or join a private course.  Do not expect other people to change their ways for you.

Why does everybody have to conform to your idealistic view of golf?  Maybe everybody should slow down and enjoy their time on the course more.  Again, why do you personally get to set the rules for how others spend their leisure time?  I think the real question is why is it a goal to finish so fast?  Do you not like being outside on the course?  I think thats a very odd mentality to rush through a game of golf so much that you feel accomplished when you post a fast round, rather than a low scoring round.

I don't hear hockey players saying they wished their games ended faster.  Or football players wanting to shave 15 minutes off their flag football game.

How about to keep the game alive isn't that a good enough reason? I guess if you don't care that you are ruining the game for everyone your selfish enough for it not to matter.

A 2005 study by former USGA technical director Frank Thomas found slow play to be the No. 1 obstacle to growing the game.

The fact is that fast play is better for the sport as a whole, while slow play is just better for a person. As a wise man once said the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

When was the last time your though Damn I finished that round too quickly?? Quite possibly never, and how many times did you think that it took too much time?

[pumaAttack]

How about to keep the game alive isn't that a good enough reason? I guess if you don't care that you are ruining the game for everyone your selfish enough for it not to matter.

A 2005 study by former USGA technical director Frank Thomas found slow play to be the No. 1 obstacle to growing the game.

The fact is that fast play is better for the sport as a whole, while slow play is just better for a person. As a wise man once said the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

When was the last time your though Damn I finished that round too quickly?? Quite possibly never, and how many times did you think that it took too much time?

LOL.

You think a 70 BILLION dollar industry is going to die because of slow play??!  Do I need to bold that and make it a larger font too?

Fast play is better for you, so everybody has to conform to that.  That is still your argument.   You have yet to read that I play fast, I am just against golfers telling other golfers how to play their own game.   And yes I have thought that, it happened last Saturday.  I was playing with a friend and finished our round in under 4 hours.  I thought it went by too fast and was enjoying my time on the course.  I am sorry you can't appreciate being on the golf course but that doesn't mean everybody else has to rush to accommodate your race track philosophy.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Not seeing that at all. I think people that know how to play ready golf are frustrated with slow play and the lack of awareness some golfers have when it comes pace of play.

You are missing the point.  Why do certain people get to depict how other golfers play their own games?  Why do they have to speed up play during a leisure round?  If you hate slow play, go at times where the course is more open or join a private course.  Do not expect other people to change their ways for you.

Right, so people who play too slow are probably not suited to play golf. They should find another activity.

[pumaAttack]

Right, so people who play too slow are probably not suited to play golf. They should find another activity.

They have to find a whole other activity/hobby/sport now because they don't play as fast as you?!

Yikes, talk about extremism.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Right, so people who play too slow are probably not suited to play golf. They should find another activity.

They have to find a whole other activity/hobby/sport now because they don't play as fast as you?!

Yikes, talk about extremism.

You seem to be reading into things too much, or my language skills are really bad or something?

Playing in a timely manner is an integral part of golf, and anyone who does not play fast enough should simply not play.

[saevel25]

LOL.

You think a 70 BILLION dollar industry is going to die because of slow play??!  Do I need to bold that and make it a larger font too?

Umm, he said growing the game, not killing the game. Might want to read what actually posted

Your argument can easily be thrown back right at you. Why should slow golfers force faster golfers to conform to slow play?

They have to find a whole other activity/hobby/sport now because they don't play as fast as you?!

Yikes, talk about extremism.

Nope, but they could let golfers play through. They could pick up the pace. They could just pick up and move onto the next hole if they took a lot of strokes. If you keep a USGA handicap, pick up after your ESC because any more strokes don't count towards the handicap anyways.

Is it enjoyable actually finishing out a hole when you take 10 strokes and are holding up both your own group and other groups? Does it really matter?

Still, in the end your argument can be right back at you with regards to slow golfers. Honestly I find most people want to play fast. Slow golfers are in the minority here.

In the end golfers should be able to finish a round in or at 4 hours.