Rock hard bunkers

[boil3rmak3r]

I play with my father at his home course a few times per year. The "sand traps" there are laughable. If you wiggle your ankles to dig your feet in, you hardly even scratch the surface. I use Erik's pitching techniique for these shots (it's a thread on this site, I just don't know how to link it via my phone - maybe someone else can). I use a 60* wedge with 20*+ bounce. Works very well. Prior to using that technique, I'd try a traditional sand shot and would skull way too many into the lip or over the green. The funny thing is, I don't use this pitching technique too much from around the greens. I can't seem to flight the ball down enough to get the control I want.

[colin007]

With the right technique, using a wedge with higher bounce can make this shot easier. http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video-golf-pitch-shot-technique

[RFKFREAK]

With the right technique, using a wedge with higher bounce can make this shot easier. http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video-golf-pitch-shot-technique

Considering the bunkers full of gravel at your home course, I'm sure you know all about this issue. :p

[colin007]

Considering the bunkers full of gravel at your home course, I'm sure you know all about this issue. :p

Aren't they the worst?? I've never seen bunkers that bad anywhere else....And the layout of the rest of the course is decent, just the bunkers that are the main detriment to its quality. The ones on the Red are the worst of the 4

[iacas]

I believe it works for you b/c you have 11 degree bounce.

If you tried that with 14 degrees of bounce that shot would be extremely difficult.

Bogus.

This club has 22° bounce:

It's all about technique. I teach people all the time to use the bounce - or "glide" - from hardpan lies. In the sand there's no such thing as true hardpan unless you get down to the lining or whatever (where there's basically no sand).

[RGoosen]

Bogus. This club has 22° bounce: It's all about technique. I teach people all the time to use the bounce - or "glide" - from hardpan lies. In the sand there's no such thing as true hardpan unless you get down to the lining or whatever (where there's basically no sand).

Not every one has the exact same thoughts on how to play bunker shots or even the full swing. I appreciate your insight since you teach, but I played with a PGA professional today who agreed with me today on how to play the shot you are describing. I have also read Gary Players book on bunker play and he says the same thing. We can agree to disagree...or sum up to there is more than one way to play from a hardpan like greenside bunker.

[iacas]

Not every one has the exact same thoughts on how to play bunker shots or even the full swing.

That's kind of beside the point. You said it would be "extremely difficult." I'm showing you that it's really not. It's not difficult if you use a better technique.

I taught some bogey golfers how to play from hardpan bunkers. They did well, too. It's somewhat of an easy shot, really: you don't hit the ball, and the club is not going to be slowed down much so whether you hit 1" or 3" behind the ball you're gonna get about the same shot.

[Phil McGleno]

Not every one has the exact same thoughts on how to play bunker shots or even the full swing. I appreciate your insight since you teach, but I played with a PGA professional today who agreed with me today on how to play the shot you are describing. I have also read Gary Players book on bunker play and he says the same thing. We can agree to disagree...or sum up to there is more than one way to play from a hardpan like greenside bunker.

You are going to find-If you stick around and we hope you do-That a lot of instructors do not know much at all. Lots of stupid myths out there. Lots of dumb people in the golf industry.-You will discover @iacas and @mvmac are not among the dummies. Chipping from hardpan in a bunker is way, way, way more difficult.-Requires perfect contact.

[iacas]

Chipping from hardpan in a bunker is way, way, way more difficult.-Requires perfect contact.

Yeah. To be fair I skimmed the earlier posts so I'm not sure anyone said that… but… yeah. Chipping from hardpan is difficult. More propensity for the club to bounce up into the ball. Pitching with a shallow AoA is much easier. I can hit that high, soft shot from the hardpan very easily.

Plus you're swinging slower if you're trying to chip versus pitching, so any change in that (i.e. hitting it a tad fat) and you get a very different (bad) shot than you were expecting.

[RGoosen]

That's kind of beside the point. You said it would be "extremely difficult." I'm showing you that it's really not. It's not difficult if you use a better technique. I taught some bogey golfers how to play from hardpan bunkers. They did well, too. It's somewhat of an easy shot, really: you don't hit the ball, and the club is not going to be slowed down much so whether you hit 1" or 3" behind the ball you're gonna get about the same shot.

Fair enough. I think the way I was taught is easier for me. That doesn't mean I think you are wrong.

[RGoosen]

You are going to find-If you stick around and we hope you do-That a lot of instructors do not know much at all. Lots of stupid myths out there. Lots of dumb people in the golf industry.-You will discover @iacas and @mvmac are not among the dummies. Chipping from hardpan in a bunker is way, way, way more difficult.-Requires perfect contact.

I agree with 99% of iacas posts I have read on this site. I have no reason to dismiss his thoughts on the golf swing b/c I find this one shot easier the way my instructor has taught me. Where would Sean Foley fit in as far as being a great instructor or a quack? :)

[RFKFREAK]

Aren't they the worst?? I've never seen bunkers that bad anywhere else....And the layout of the rest of the course is decent, just the bunkers that are the main detriment to its quality. The ones on the Red are the worst of the 4

The bunker on 9 on Green might be the only legit one there.

[DrvFrShow]

Watch that video in slow motion. We don't have bunkers this hardpan up here, but I do practice this pitch shot off the mats and aim for a target at the range because it's fun to do, and you never know when you're going to be in a situation where you'll need it. And this summer we had rock hard green aprons at some courses. Chipping on from them was a nightmare, and as Erik and Phil mentioned that was a very difficult shot. I tried it, and skulled a few because the club just bounced up and caught the ball wrong (fat shot), then tried this pitch off hard pan because well, I couldn't putt it due to a sprinkler head in the way. It worked, but you have to trust your shot.

[saevel25]

Watch that video in slow motion. We don't have bunkers this hardpan up here, but I do practice this pitch shot off the mats and aim for a target at the range because it's fun to do, and you never know when you're going to be in a situation where you'll need it. And this summer we had rock hard green aprons at some courses. Chipping on from them was a nightmare, and as Erik and Phil mentioned that was a very difficult shot. I tried it, and skulled a few because the club just bounced up and caught the ball wrong (fat shot), then tried this pitch off hard pan because well, I couldn't putt it due to a sprinkler head in the way. It worked, but you have to trust your shot.

You'd be surprised at how much you can hit behind a hard pan lie and not have to worry about it. I think it's more the angle of attack than anything. Come in a bit shallower than steeper and you will find you don't literally bounce the club as much.  Honestly, I prefer hardpan lies over soggy lies. You really can't catch a soggy lie fat or it's coming up way short.

[DrvFrShow]

You're right @saevel25 . I hate soggy lies, too.

[colin007]

Angle of attack is where it's at.

[Lihu]

You're right @saevel25 . I hate soggy lies, too.

At first I thought you wrote "soppy lies" :-D

[dchoye]

I don't understand why more players don't just putt out of hard bunkers with little or no lip.

It may look odd but sometimes easier than using a wedge.

In much older course greens were made of hard sand , as maintenance cost were lower. and people putter on sand.