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Changing from draw to fade revitalized my game!


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So up until fairly recently I was a struggling 10 handicapper. I'd really been struggling to even shoot near my h'cap for many months and my driver was all over the place, so I decided to fork out on some lessons with a reputable pro who uses GC2/HMT software. I hit some shots with 7 iron, then driver, then we discussed my game and I said I like to shape it from right to left. He then had me hitting with a more out to in path, ball further forward and more passive hands. I immediately struck it better, flighted it higher and saw a nice baby fade developing with all my irons. He told me that most tour pro's hate to miss it left so opt for a shot that will just leak right as its safer, more predictable and more consistent in both direction and carry distance. He also used to want to draw it but changed to a fade when he realised it would provide more accuracy.

I took it to the course and was striking it so pure. I found it weird aiming left, but I quickly gained confidence to just 'swing left' knowing it wouldn't go left. In the month since my 'epiphany' i've dropped from 9.7 to 8.7 having only played two comps. My confidence is back. My driver is still not great as I'm hitting a lot of big blocks/push fades, but otherwise I wish I'd 'converted' earlier.

Everyone seems so obsessed with hitting a draw. I once asked one of the scratch juniors (who hit big draws) if he ever faded and he laughed "nah, I think it's a sh*t shot mate!". Naivety of youth perhaps, but it seems the fade is seen as weak players shot whereas a draw takes skill?! I certainly feel fading your irons provides a crisper, more descending blow, higher flight, more carry and less roll out, which is surely all a good thing?

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it seems the fade is seen as weak players shot whereas a draw takes skill?!

I think this is probably a combo of what @ryan772 said, everyone wants to brag about their distance and it's easier for people to hit a power draw than a power fade.

I'd also bet that a big part of why people think that is that it's WAY more common to see really bad players with out of control fades/slices with no ability to hit a draw than the opposite.  So people tend to think of the draw as the player's shape, fade as the hacker's shape.

But I fully agree with you that if done with skill it's just a preference thing, whatever is most natural or lets you have the most control over the ball.  There are plenty of top notch tour pros, current and past, whose stock shot with some or all clubs is a fade.

Finally, for myself, I've fought a block fade my entire golf life and could never hit a draw except a low trap draw bordering on a hook.  So I've embarked on a mission to implement a draw as my stock shape.

Matt

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I think this is probably a combo of what @ryan772 said, everyone wants to brag about their distance and it's easier for people to hit a power draw than a power fade. I'd also bet that a big part of why people think that is that it's WAY more common to see really bad players with out of control fades/slices with no ability to hit a draw than the opposite.  So people tend to think of the draw as the player's shape, fade as the hacker's shape. But I fully agree with you that if done with skill it's just a preference thing, whatever is most natural or lets you have the most control over the ball.  There are plenty of top notch tour pros, current and past, whose stock shot with some or all clubs is a fade. Finally, for myself, I've fought a block fade my entire golf life and could never hit a draw except a low trap draw bordering on a hook.  So I've embarked on a mission to implement a draw as my stock shape.

I would venture to say that hacks hit the fade wrong, there aren't many teachers that would teach someone to have an out-in swing path because coming across the ball is just not a good idea the way the hacks do it.. I am almost sure that most tour pros who hit a fade are still swinging out, but are managing their shape via alignment and not coming across the ball..

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Eyad

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I would venture to say that hacks hit the fade wrong, there aren't many teachers that would teach someone to have an out-in swing path because coming across the ball is just not a good idea the way the hacks do it.. I am almost sure that most tour pros who hit a fade are still swinging out, but are managing their shape via alignment and not coming across the ball..

Absolutely agree.  I'm just saying that I think in general people think of the draw both as the better player's shape and as the distance shape because, regardless of whether they're doing it "right" or not – I'd argue that you can play good golf with a baby pull-fade with a slight out to in swing path btw – there's definitely a correlation between how good an amateur is and whether they primarily play a fade or a draw, just because there are good players that play both, but the vast majority of crappy players fight a fade/slice.

Matt

Mid-Weight Heavy Putter
Cleveland Tour Action 60˚
Cleveland CG15 54˚
Nike Vapor Pro Combo, 4i-GW
Titleist 585h 19˚
Tour Edge Exotics XCG 15˚ 3 Wood
Taylormade R7 Quad 9.5˚

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Up until a few years ago I faded the ball but I got so flippy with the hands and only picked the ball that I need to get more connected with my swing. A fade is a power players shot shape of choice because it is easier to control and the ball flies higher and lands softer.

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Rich C.

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The draw works for drives, looks impressive with roll... I have gone for a combo. I "generally" draw the drives and long Irons off the tee, but I play a baby fade with the approach clubs. I see it as two completely different setups and swings, so I'm not intermingling the two (for the most part). That's how I TRY and play my game, anyway. Over the years, trying to hit either all one way or the other just didn't work for me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
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A draw usually will have more distance then a cut or fade which is part of the reason a lot of people prefer it.

If you hit the ball correctly, they'll go the same distance. Loss of distance on fades is usually due to a way too steep angle of attack, or just the fact that most people tend to deloft a club when they hit a draw. (I learned this from a different forum so if this is wrong please educate me)

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Honestly, I have a counter-intuitive idea about the whole thing. If you want me to be able to stop slicing the ball, teach me the correct way to hit a slice. Then you can teach me how to regulate it into a fade or hit it straight.

Julia

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Honestly, I have a counter-intuitive idea about the whole thing. If you want me to be able to stop slicing the ball, teach me the correct way to hit a slice. Then you can teach me how to regulate it into a fade or hit it straight.

While I've been trying to hit fades and draws on the range for a couple of weeks now, I still just don't have a good enough swing to manipulate it well, but this did occur to me while I was practicing. If my coach had just explained to me how to hit a slice on purpose I'm sure I would have had a much easier time getting rid of it than I did.

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If you hit the ball correctly, they'll go the same distance.

Loss of distance on fades is usually due to a way too steep angle of attack, or just the fact that most people tend to deloft a club when they hit a draw.

(I learned this from a different forum so if this is wrong please educate me)

Yup, that's pretty much it. I would think most amateurs hit their fades with a little flip that adds loft and height, and when they learn to draw the ball, it's a pull draw that goes lower and runs out longer.

The pros don't play a draw or fade as their stock shot because a draw is longer or a fade is higher, etc. Bubba Watson's stock shape is a fade, as is Gary Woodland's; both are among the longest hitters on tour. Jason Day, known for hitting really high shots, plays a draw.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Honestly, I have a counter-intuitive idea about the whole thing. If you want me to be able to stop slicing the ball, teach me the correct way to hit a slice. Then you can teach me how to regulate it into a fade or hit it straight.

There isn't a correct way to hit a slice. People also slice for different reasons. At the end of the day the path is way left of the face (for a righty).

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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I'm a pretty short driver and my shot was a weak fade.  This winter I took some lessons indoor with a monitor. The pro changed my alignment and swing path and now I drive a slight draw. My records show it's about 15 yards more on average....and when you drive around 200 that makes a difference!  Its the biggest reason my handicap this year has gone from 23.1 to 18.9 .

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Absolutely agree.  I'm just saying that I think in general people think of the draw both as the better player's shape and as the distance shape because, regardless of whether they're doing it "right" or not – I'd argue that you can play good golf with a baby pull-fade with a slight out to in swing path btw – there's definitely a correlation between how good an amateur is and whether they primarily play a fade or a draw, just because there are good players that play both, but the vast majority of crappy players fight a fade/slice.

This would apply to me. Eliminating a slice was the primary reason for learning it. That, and I just wanted to learn something that seemed difficult.

He told me that most tour pro's hate to miss it left so opt for a shot that will just leak right as its safer, more predictable and more consistent in both direction and carry distance. He also used to want to draw it but changed to a fade when he realised it would provide more accuracy.

I've always wondered why some pros prefer a fade as their stock shot. This is as good an explanation as I've read.

I've seen posts like "I  naturally hit a draw" or "I naturally hit a fade". That never made sense to me. When starting out, I "naturally" hit a slice and "naturally" hit a weak fade. All that meant is that my mechanics sucked (ok, they still do but not as much).

It seems to me that as I learn to hit a draw, the amount of curve is very slight. Often on well-struck shots, the spin is closer to "neutral". As others have stated, when the shot does fade slightly, there doesn't seem to be much, if any, loss of distance. Nothing like the weak fades I used to hit.

Good thread.

Jon

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I've seen posts like "I  naturally hit a draw" or "I naturally hit a fade". That never made sense to me. When starting out, I "naturally" hit a slice and "naturally" hit a weak fade. All that meant is that my mechanics sucked (ok, they still do but not as much).

I don't think it means from the time you first start playing, but rather once your mechanics improve, your alignments and idiosyncrasies will lead to hitting one particular shape over the other. [quote name="JonMA1" url="/t/83985/changing-from-draw-to-fade-revitalized-my-game#post_1188844"]It seems to me that as I learn to hit a draw, the amount of curve is very slight. Often on well-struck shots, the spin is closer to "neutral". As others have stated, when the shot does fade slightly, there doesn't seem to be much, if any, loss of distance. Nothing like the weak fades I used to hit.   [/quote]That's good, it means your ballstriking is improving. Most pros don't curve the ball more than 5 yards with their stock shot. A guy who hits a big sweeping draw all the time has a bunch of issues in their swing, just as a guy who hits banana balls all the time does.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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There isn't a correct way to hit a slice. People also slice for different reasons. At the end of the day the path is way left of the face (for a righty).

I've been wondering about this because you know that shot where you want to hit a cut around a tree? When I have to, I can't do it to save my life, yet I can slice, dice and make julienne fries with a FW off the deck at times when I don't want to. It happens when things go wrong. My natural shot is a draw. My miss is a push. Sometimes there's that pull, those usually come out late in a round along with the slices.

Julia

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Didn't Nicklaus and Tiger predominantly hit a fade?  :)


Nicklaus hit a baby push fade. Tiger hits a fade now, but at times hit a draw. Trevino hit a pull face.

Scott

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