Taking good balls from range buckets

[StefanUrkel]

Taking good balls from range buckets is considered worse that stealing, and you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  It is worse because you are doing it on a golf course where integrity is key.

[MrDC]

I take it without hesitation, because I don't think the range really cares, they have all the balls they need and then some, also it adds up to about three balls a year because it takes a really nice ball for me to even consider it.

[RFKFREAK]

Never been in the situation where I found a premium ball in a bucket, and, as such, I've never thought about it.

I'm willing to bet, though, that had I been in the position of finding a "pearl" in a bucket, I don't think I would think as deeply about the issue as to ownership and would probably have considered taking possession of it.

Having now read this thread, though, I probably would set it aside and ask the golf shop if they were ok with me taking it or not, and, if not, then I'd probably just go back to hit that one ball.

Oddly enough, thought, @Sante TwoGloves has given me a bit to think about when it comes to "donating" my own balls and if range wants them or not.  Maybe it's a silly comparison but it might be similar to donating an old book or magazine to a library.  They might humor you and take it if they don't necessarily want it but they also might not appreciate you potentially making more work for them unless they make it generally known that they accept donations.

[phan52]

Our range is adjacent to a hole and players will occasionally hit balls OB into the range. I rarely find a good ball in the bucket while on the range because I suspect the guys working the range may pick them for themselves if they happen to find any. But I wouldn't take it if I did. Just wouldn't feel right.

Although I did take a few brand new ProV's while working the short game range at a PGA Tour event. I doubt they missed them and I think it was fair compensation for all of the volunteer work I put in that week.

[Pretzel]

The library though has to categorize and create labels for a new book or magazine that is donated.

The first step here is understanding the process that a majority of ranges follow when processing golf balls hit onto their range. The range picker picks up the golf balls as it goes around and it will pick up a small amount of golf balls just as fast as a large amount of golf balls, with the only limiting factor being how much ground the picker has to cover (how spread are the golf balls?). The picker usually places the golf balls into a series of baskets which, when full, are emptied into larger trash barrels to transport the golf balls. After being picked the balls are either replaced in the machine or they are washed first in an automatic ballwasher, then replaced into the machine.

The golf range really doesn't incur a greater workload when you donate golf balls, as long as you're hitting less than a couple hundred. All the balls get picked up in the same amount of time when the range does a "super pick" to clear the range of all the golf balls before they mow, because the range picker covers the full area of the range in the same amount of time regardless of if there are 200 balls out there or 2000. It might cost the range a total of two minutes if you manage to hit so many of your own golf balls (and we're talking in the range of 200+ balls here that would be required) that the person operating the range picker has to dump the baskets into their barrel one extra time.

So at this point, by you hitting more than 200 of your own balls at one time onto the driving range, you have cost the range a total of about $.25 going off the minimum wage in Colorado.

Moving onto the washing phase, the ball washer may have to run one additional load to handle all 200 balls that you put into the system at once. If you assume that the ball washer uses 50 gallons of water, 3600 watt/hours of power (the same amount of power an average dishwasher would consume in an hour), and 1 squirt (with a "squirt" being 1/50th of a bottle of dish soap), then it costs the range approximately $.0035 in water, about $.35 in electricity, and $.05 of a 24 ounce bottle of Dawn Ultra Pure dish soap, in addition to another $.75 of labor costs for the work to dump the balls in the washer from the barrel, then collect the balls again and dump them in the dispenser.

This brings us to the point where we add up the cost of you adding 200 golf balls into the driving range's system:

Manpower - $1.00

Electricity - $0.35

Dish Soap - $0.05

Water - $0.0035

Giving us a grand total cost of $1.4035 for the range owner.

With a cost of $1.4035 for the range owner to "accept" your donation of 200 golf balls, he merely has to sell 10 of them at 5 for a dollar (a real bargain for anyone purchasing the balls in the pro shop) to recoup his costs in collecting the balls and gain 190 "free" balls and a tidy little $0.5965 profit for himself in the process.

In the meantime, using the going rate of $0.83 per Wilson Staff Premium range ball ( Found Here ) you just saved him $157.70 in the costs of purchasing new range balls. Any way you cut the pie, the range owner will be pretty happy that you're giving him/her golf balls to keep.

[pumaAttack]

At the time the golfer abandons the ball, the golf course operator uses its resources to find it, takes ownership, and then uses it on the range.

Sorry but I disagree with you on this.

They did not buy the ball.  They bought the range balls.

The barely hit ProV1 that happened to find its way into their driving range is not their property.

[newtogolf]

Never been in the situation where I found a premium ball in a bucket, and, as such, I've never thought about it.

I'm willing to bet, though, that had I been in the position of finding a "pearl" in a bucket, I don't think I would think as deeply about the issue as to ownership and would probably have considered taking possession of it.

Having now read this thread, though, I probably would set it aside and ask the golf shop if they were ok with me taking it or not, and, if not, then I'd probably just go back to hit that one ball.

Oddly enough, thought, @Sante TwoGloves has given me a bit to think about when it comes to "donating" my own balls and if range wants them or not.  Maybe it's a silly comparison but it might be similar to donating an old book or magazine to a library.  They might humor you and take it if they don't necessarily want it but they also might not appreciate you potentially making more work for them unless they make it generally known that they accept donations.

I asked the owner of my range today if he had any issue with me hitting a few of my own golf balls.  His response was "Hell no as long as you don't try to go out on the range and get them back".  He was perplexed and asked why I did or wanted to and I explained that the reason was to checking actual distances with certain clubs and not wanting to mess up my driver with a range ball.  He said it's my money, as long as it's regulation size the pickers and ball kiosks don't know the difference between a range ball and a non range ball.

[RFKFREAK]

I asked the owner of my range today if he had any issue with me hitting a few of my own golf balls.  His response was "Hell no as long as you don't try to go out on the range and get them back".  He was perplexed and asked why I did or wanted to and I explained that the reason was to checking actual distances with certain clubs and not wanting to mess up my driver with a range ball.  He said it's my money, as long as it's regulation size the pickers and ball kiosks don't know the difference between a range ball and a non range ball.

Yeah, like @Golfingdad (although this is a different issue), I wouldn't be surprised if some owners/operators cared and some didn't.

[pumaAttack]

How incredibly . . . . self-serving.

If I owned a bank I wouldn't care if people came and took as much money as they want, so therefore it is OK for me to rob a bank?

There is no moral grey area at all, just a lot of rationalizing.  It is really very simple:

1) Is it yours?

2) If so take it,  If not, do not take it.

What could be simpler or cleaner?

It is the classic difference between mine and thine.

Note, the actual owner doesn't need to be known, the size of the item doesn't matter, whether or not the ball is marked as a range ball doesn't matter.  The simple rule works perfectly no matter what.

That is not even close to the same situation....

Did people randomly lose their money at a bank?  Did the bank collect it and then let people throw money around in a cage?  You know, how a driving range works.

The driving range bought the "Range Balls" and therefore those are their property.  Taking a range ball is stealing.

They did not buy the "ProV1" and therefore it is not their property.  Taking the ProV1 is not stealing.

[newtogolf]

That is not even close to the same situation....

Did people randomly lose their money at a bank?  Did the bank collect it and then let people throw money around in a cage?  You know, how a driving range works.

The driving range bought the "Range Balls" and therefore those are their property.  Taking a range ball is stealing.

They did not buy the "ProV1" and therefore it is not their property.  Taking the ProV1 is not stealing.

Read through all the posts, clearly you don't understand what constitutes ownership.  We've had two lawyers provide legal definitions and you're interpretation isn't correct.

[pumaAttack]

Read through all the posts, clearly you don't understand what constitutes ownership.  We've had two lawyers provide legal definitions and you're interpretation isn't correct.

So the range randomly had a ball appear on their property.  Now that ball is theirs?

That same ball randomly appeared in my bucket.  Now that property is still theirs?

How did they gain ownership but can't lose it??  They never paid for the ball, so they don't have any receipt for that ownership.  How can they prove it is their ball?

Say the person on the range hits the ProV1 and slices it onto the course.  Is it no longer the ranges property?  Can the guy playing the fairway take that ball?

Does the range have the right to any ball that enters their property?  If I carry a sleeve of new balls onto the range's property, can they legally take those as their own?

[newtogolf]

So the range randomly had a ball appear on their property.  Now that ball is theirs?

That same ball randomly appeared in my bucket.  Now that property is still theirs?

How did they gain ownership but can't lose it??  They never paid for the ball, so they don't have any receipt for that ownership.  How can they prove it is their ball?

Say the person on the range hits the ProV1 and slices it onto the course.  Is it no longer the ranges property?  Can the guy playing the fairway take that ball?

Sorry but your so called iron-clad ownership laws are wrong.

The ball is in the bucket you paid them to rent which in itself is acknowledgement that the balls in the bucket belong to the range.

Even if you want to contest their ownership, it's blatantly obvious that the ball does not belong to you so therefore you taking it, is theft.

Read the thread, you're rehashing the same lame argument others before you have.

[pumaAttack]

The ball is in the bucket you paid them to rent which in itself is acknowledgement that the balls in the bucket belong to the range.

Even if you want to contest their ownership, it's blatantly obvious that the ball does not belong to you so therefore you taking it, is theft.

Read the thread, you're rehashing the same lame argument others before you have.

I am paying them to rent a ball?   Ok.  A ball that they purchased.

Where is their receipt for the ball that was lost on their range?  They are just as guilty of "theft" as I am by taking the ball.   They did not purchase the item yet are laying claim to it.  Seems like theft to me....

Didn't know you could legally rent an item you have no clear ownership over.

[14ledo81]

[QUOTE name="newtogolf" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/324#post_1197113"]   The ball is in the bucket you paid them to rent which in itself is acknowledgement that the balls in the bucket belong to the range. Even if you want to contest their ownership, it's blatantly obvious that the ball does not belong to you so therefore you taking it, is theft. Read the thread, you're rehashing the same lame argument others before you have. [/QUOTE] I am paying them to rent a ball?   Ok.  A ball that they purchased. Where is their receipt for the ball that was lost on their range? Didn't know you could legally rent an item you have no clear ownership over.

Do you own the ball you found (and picked up) from the course?

[pumaAttack]

Do you own the ball you found (and picked up) from the course?

No I do not own it.  Also, I am not trying to profit of that lost ball.  I am not selling it/renting it out.

[14ledo81]

[CONTENTEMBED=/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/324#post_1197114 layout=inline]Quote:[/CONTENTEMBED] [QUOTE name="14ledo81" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/324#post_1197117"] Do you own the ball you found (and picked up) from the course?[/QUOTE] No I do not own it.  Also, I am not trying to profit of that lost ball.  I am not selling it/renting it out.

What would you call taking something you do not own?

[pumaAttack]

What would you call taking something you do not own?

You mean the same thing the range just did?  Listen you can call it theft if you want, but the range is just as guilty.

Therefore they have no right to the ball if you take it.  It is not theirs either.

If the purchaser of the ball in question saw the ball and asked for it back, I would gladly give it back.   The range has no claim to a ball they did not ever own.

[14ledo81]

[QUOTE name="14ledo81" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/324#post_1197120"] What would you call taking something you do not own?[/QUOTE] You mean the same thing the range just did?  Listen you can call it theft if you want, but the range is just as guilty.   Therefore they have no right to the ball if you take it.  It is not theirs either.   If the purchaser of the ball in question saw the ball and asked for it back, I would gladly give it back.   The range has no claim to a ball they did not ever own.

The ball that was left on the range was abandoned. At that point the range spent their time and money to retrieve it. It became theirs.