Article on Hogan's Attitude toward Palmer

[boogielicious]

From golfdigest.com

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/arnold-palmer-is-still-miffed-at-how-ben-hogan-talked-down-to-him

I guess Hogan had either axe to grind or just was jealous of the newcomer. We see this a lot in sport with the new phenom replacing to older one. Older fans side with the player of their time.

Quote:

By Sam Weinman

Arnold Palmer is so beloved by so many, it's hard to imagine him having much of an axe grind with anyone. Here's another example of where the late Ben Hogan was in a class of his own.

As the story goes, Hogan and Palmer never quite meshed in their time overlapping at the height of golf. Hogan was all business, Palmer admired as much for his dynamic personality as his game. When Hogan was captain of the American Ryder Cup team in 1967, he was said to be annoyed that Palmer flew over the tournament site in his jet.

And no matter how far Palmer got in golf -- winning seven majors, not to mention countless new fans -- Hogan still viewed him as a bit of an interloper. In an interview with Graham Bensinger on Yahoo! Sports , Palmer reiterated that it still rattles him that Hogan never called him by his name.

"It did bother me," Palmer, 86, told Bensinger in an interview that will run this weekend. "And I wasn’t ever quite sure why he didn’t. But ‘til the day he passed, I never remember him calling my name out and pronouncing my name Arnold or Palmer… and I played on his Ryder Cup team in Houston and even then he never called me by Arnie or Arnold. A lot of it was ‘Hey you’ or something like that all the time. And I objected to it but there was nothing I could do about it.”

Hogan's frosty attitude toward Palmer has been chronicled before. In an interview with Golf Digest's Bob Verdi in 1999 , Palmer said he resented how Hogan barely acknowledged him.

"I suppose that's the thing that bothered me some. That I was never an entity as far as he was concerned. I was just another player. I was on his team when he was captain of the Ryder Cup in 1967. But we never really had a conversation.

Another time, I played in an exhibition at Preston Trail. Byron Nelson, Sam Snead, Hogan and me. I played very well. I was low man that day, and I got the feeling that upset him. I talked to Nelson, I talked to Snead, but the conversation with Hogan was zero. I had more conversation with Valerie, his wife, a wonderful lady who's gone now. A wonderful lady."

[Patch]

I think Hogan's attitude to other players, was just a part of his golf game, his persona,  which made him one of the greatest players of his era of golf. I often thought that he, Nicklaus, and Tiger Woods had the same mental fortitude that enhanced their physical game for beating the other players in their different eras of golf.

I think I just coined a new phrase. Instead of GOAT, I can now use GOTE.....greatest of their era.

Maybe GITE?

[billchao]

I guess Hogan had either axe to grind or just was jealous of the newcomer. We see this a lot in sport with the new phenom replacing to older one. Older fans side with the player of their time.

From the stories I've read of Hogan, this was just how he was. He was just generally unapproachable and he was known to have played entire rounds and not spoken a single word to his playing partners.

He could have had some extra venom towards Arnold Palmer and I can understand why. Hogan was one of the greatest golfers of that era and was completely passed over as soon as Palmer hit the scene. Part of it was probably because of his personality vs Palmer's; he was just much more approachable than Hogan for journalists and fans alike.

I read one story where people had been telling Hogan on the range how long this Palmer kid hit the ball and Hogan was unimpressed. They were paired together for the round and both hit good opening drives, one longer than the other. Both players walked to the longer drive assuming it was theirs, but Ben just stood there and lit a cigarette or something without saying anything. Arnold finally decided to check the ball and it was in fact Ben's, so he made the walk back to the other ball.

[jbishop15]

From the stories I've read of Hogan, this was just how he was. He was just generally unapproachable and he was known to have played entire rounds and not spoken a single word to his playing partners. He could have had some extra venom towards Arnold Palmer and I can understand why. Hogan was one of the greatest golfers of that era and was completely passed over as soon as Palmer hit the scene. Part of it was probably because of his personality vs Palmer's; he was just much more approachable than Hogan for journalists and fans alike. I read one story where people had been telling Hogan on the range how long this Palmer kid hit the ball and Hogan was unimpressed. They were paired together for the round and both hit good opening drives, one longer than the other. Both players walked to the longer drive assuming it was theirs, but Ben just stood there and lit a cigarette or something without saying anything. Arnold finally decided to check the ball and it was in fact Ben's, so he made the walk back to the other ball.

Hogan was a colder personality on the course, but that was how he preferred to play. With Palmer, he legitimately didn't like him; in the James Dodson Hogan biography, there were many instances of Hogan coming out and saying how much he disliked Palmer. Hogan comes off as a real ass about it.

[Gunther]

I've heard this before and it's really a shame Hogan was such a miserable dude. Tiger is taking the exact opposite approach as he begins his inevitable fade. He's taken all the top young guns under his wing, so to speak. A lot more than Nicklaus ever did. It's a great gesture and I've become a bigger Tiger fan than I ever was because of it. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[newtogolf]

I've read a number of books about Hogan, none present him as a very friendly guy towards his competitors.

Hogan had a tough childhood, worked hard for everything he had (including his swing), had the best years of his career taken from him by military service and an almost fatal car accident.  He played during a time where professional golfers weren't very respected and made more money from cash games than he did from winning tournaments.  I think he was bitter that he paved the way for guys like Palmer and resented the fame and money they would go on to make.

Hogan also was known to not like any of the people he competed against.  He had very few friends and most books only cite Jimmy Demaret as a friend of Hogan who he competed against on Tour.

[Gunther]

I've read a number of books about Hogan, none present him as a very friendly guy towards his competitors. Hogan had a tough childhood, worked hard for everything he had (including his swing), had the best years of his career taken from him by military service and an almost fatal car accident.  He played during a time where professional golfers weren't very respected and made more money from cash games than he did from winning tournaments.  I think he was bitter that he paved the way for guys like Palmer and resented the fame and money they would go on to make. Hogan also was known to not like any of the people he competed against.  He had very few friends and most books only cite Jimmy Demaret as a friend of Hogan who he competed against on Tour.

I think he got on well with Byron Nelson also. They caddied together as teens so had a very long relationship.

[newtogolf]

I think he got on well with Byron Nelson also. They caddied together as teens so had a very long relationship.

I've read mixed things about their relationship.  In their early years Hogan resented Nelson who was a few years ahead of him in achieving success.  I think Hogan felt he was always in Nelsons shadow.

[jbishop15]

I've read a number of books about Hogan, none present him as a very friendly guy towards his competitors.

Hogan had a tough childhood, worked hard for everything he had (including his swing), had the best years of his career taken from him by military service and an almost fatal car accident.  He played during a time where professional golfers weren't very respected and made more money from cash games than he did from winning tournaments.  I think he was bitter that he paved the way for guys like Palmer and resented the fame and money they would go on to make.

Hogan also was known to not like any of the people he competed against.  He had very few friends and most books only cite Jimmy Demaret as a friend of Hogan who he competed against on Tour.

That's not necessarily true. Hogan was a hyper-focused sort of player, but I don't think it was outright dislike, at least most of the time.

[MrFlipper]

That's not necessarily true. Hogan was a hyper-focused sort of player, but I don't think it was outright dislike, at least most of the time.

I'm as big a Hogan fan as anyone, but he was really not a people guy. I remember hearing or reading a story about him long ago, Demaret was going into a clubhouse to eat some lunch with friends, he sees Hogan and says hey look, there's Hogan having lunch with all his friends!

He was sitting by himself

[jbishop15]

I'm as big a Hogan fan as anyone, but he was really not a people guy. I remember hearing or reading a story about him long ago, Demaret was going into a clubhouse to eat some lunch with friends, he sees Hogan and says hey look, there's Hogan having lunch with all his friends!

He was sitting by himself

Not saying he was a people person, but I don't regard him as deliberately unfriendly like a Frank Stranahan. More shy than anything.

[Aflighter]

I think a majority of his issues with people was because of his childhood.He had fight and claw for everything he got and probably felt others did not.I know alot of older folks dont think much of younger folks even these days just because of different generations.

[CR McDivot]

A lot of what was said above may be true, but consider this...

Hogan had a classic swing (overcoming severe disabilities to maintain such), and a classic attitude to the game.

Palmer was a newcomer with an unconventional swing and attitude.

My Pop thought more of Jack Nicklaus than Arnold for much the same reasons.

IMHO all three deserve respect for who they are/were and what they contributed to the game!

[newtogolf]

This happened in all sports, many of the old football players resented the younger guys who were making more money, gaining more fame and endorsement deals because of all the hard work the old guys put in to build the sport.  I do think Hogan was a bit more stand offish than most though.

[Gunther]

This happened in all sports, many of the old football players resented the younger guys who were making more money, gaining more fame and endorsement deals because of all the hard work the old guys put in to build the sport.  I do think Hogan was a bit more stand offish than most though.

Which is why I think Tiger deserves credit. It's not easy to recogize, let alone accept, that you're being passed by. He knows it and he's approaching it in a very unique, mature manner (Phil too BTW but that's in Phils's general nature). Tiger...or any former Greatest Era Golfer...not so much. It's great for us.

[newtogolf]

Which is why I think Tiger deserves credit. It's not easy to recogize, let alone accept, that you're being passed by. He knows it and he's approaching it in a very unique, mature manner (Phil too BTW but that's in Phils's general nature). Tiger...or any former Greatest Era Golfer...not so much. It's great for us.

Tiger is in the fortunate position of having done very well financially in golf and quite possibly better than many that will come after him.  He created the golf bubble and rode the crest for many years.  Rory has ridden it close behind but there's still some question as to how many more $100M endorsement contracts will be out there for guys like Day, Spieth, Fowler and others.

All that aside, I agree Tiger is being very gracious as he enters the twilight of his career.  As a Tiger fan I'm happy others will get to see that despite being a fierce competitor on the course he's overall a pretty good guy (unless you're married to him).

[imsys0042]

I think a majority of his issues with people was because of his childhood.He had fight and claw for everything he got and probably felt others did not.I know alot of older folks dont think much of younger folks even these days just because of different generations.

My perspective is that this is spot on. And probably beyond his childhood. I had a very hard upbringing and it haunts me to today (I'm 40). You never quite get over it and people who seem to have it easier than you can make you feel that way. His off course persona was much nicer than his on course on. He was a fierce competitor but I remember a lot of pictures of him smiling. Funny how he got along with Demerit considering how different they were