Making the natural fit the unnatural is the question.

[collapse]

7 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

What we are missing is how you equate the angle of the hand while standing up with one that is on the club that is moving really fast. We all think they are two different things. You seem not to.

You also seem to have the grip as the absolute most important thing in golf. Whereas, we know for a fact that there are many different grips used by great players. It is a fine tuning and not a fundamental.

This is where forum member frustration with your posts comes from. You have no scientific basis for your claims. The instructors on this site do, yet you argue that they are wrong. So we need data, video and not just a picture of JR standing holding a club. they are not proof.

Boogie....Hogan's book devotes 19 pages of the most detailed work on the grip.The grip is the most important thing,every big name player says so.

[saevel25]

Just now, collapse said:

Boogie....Hogan's book devotes 19 pages of the most detailed work on the grip.The grip is the most important thing,every big name player says so.

Then why does every PGA tour player grip the club differently. Who is right? Furyk with his double overlap? Zach Johnson with his strong grip? Rory with his neutral to weak grip? What about those who use the Vardan grip? What about those who use the interlocking grip? What about Moe with the grip more in his palms? 

Tiger Woods changed grips from Butch Harmon to Hank Haney and still played equally as well. 

All facts point that the grip is not significant. 

[collapse]

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Then why does every PGA tour player grip the club differently. Who is right? Furyk with his double overlap? Zach Johnson with his strong grip? Rory with his neutral to weak grip? What about those who use the Vardan grip? What about those who use the interlocking grip? What about Moe with the grip more in his palms? 

Tiger Woods changed grips from Butch Harmon to Hank Haney and still played equally as well. 

All facts point that the grip is not significant. 

My comment about Hogan's book and big name players is accurate.

[GolfLug]

6 minutes ago, collapse said:

GolfLug....glad to see things have worked out for you.But in a post elsewhere I equated door hinges and the screws to the wrists and fingers,set them correctly and the door swings properly.

How many functional doors have you seen mounted on a single hinge ?

[Phil McGleno]

4 minutes ago, collapse said:

Boogie....Hogan's book devotes 19 pages of the most detailed work on the grip.The grip is the most important thing,every big name player says so.

You are making this stuff too easy now-You could put Rory McIlroy and Jordan Spieth in weak or strong cross-handed grips and have them give you three strokes a side and they would still dust your sorry ass.

[mvmac]

4 minutes ago, collapse said:

The grip is the most important thing,every big name player says so.

And they're wrong. Come on dude, use some common sense. 

As @iacas just said...

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

I can give a 20-handicapper with a horrible grip a perfect grip and they'll still probably be a 19 handicapper.

 

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, collapse said:

My comment about Hogan's book and big name players is accurate.

No it's not. If so then prove it. Show that every big name player grip the club exactly like Hogan. Show that Hogan said the club should be gripped naturally like you stated in your first post. 

You better get on the phone to Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Rory, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Phil, ect... 

They better all say they use Hogan's grip. If not then you are wrong. 

[collapse]

1 minute ago, Phil McGleno said:

You are making this stuff too easy now-You could put Rory McIlroy and Jordan Spieth in weak or strong cross-handed grips and have them give you three strokes a side and they would still dust your sorry ass.

Good day Phil...good to hear from you...probably but doesn't really help the high HC advance his game.

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

No it's not. If so then prove it. Show that every big name player grip the club exactly like Hogan. Show that Hogan said the club should be gripped naturally like you stated in your first post. 

You better get on the phone to Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Rory, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Phil, ect... 

They better all say they use Hogan's grip. If not then you are wrong. 

C'mon Saevel25....read my posts re BH and big name players.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, collapse said:

Good day Phil...good to hear from you...probably but doesn't really help the high HC advance his game.

I think it speaks directly to how important the grip is.

[DaveP043]

9 minutes ago, collapse said:

Boogie....Hogan's book devotes 19 pages of the most detailed work on the grip.The grip is the most important thing,every big name player says so.

Hogan used 18 pages to discuss the grip, 23 pages to discuss stance and posture, 16 pages on the first part of the swing, and 24 pages to the second part of the swing.  Obviously, the grip didn't get any more attention than any of the other chapters.

[collapse]

Just now, iacas said:

I think it speaks directly to how important the grip is.

We disagree.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, collapse said:

We disagree.

Yep.

The main differences are…

• I can back up what I'm saying.
• I play better golf than you (and could do so with all manner of grips).
• I teach for a living.
• I've taught all manner of players.
• I understand how to make a point, and haven't shied away from answering anything.

You can only say the opposite about yourself.

 

[collapse]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

Hogan used 18 pages to discuss the grip, 23 pages to discuss stance and posture, 16 pages on the first part of the swing, and 24 pages to the second part of the swing.  Obviously, the grip didn't get any more attention than any of the other chapters.

18 if you wish.....pretty significant for something almost taken for granted by most HC.

[Dave325]

31 minutes ago, collapse said:

GolfLug....glad to see things have worked out for you.But in a post elsewhere I equated door hinges and the screws to the wrists and fingers,set them correctly and the door swings properly.

Collapse - I think it would be beneficial if you could post a video that demonstrates your thoughts. Words seem to be difficult to show what you are saying. Can you do that? You Tube is  great tool got that. 

[mvmac]

11 minutes ago, collapse said:

We disagree.

Do you honestly think that if you gave a bogey golfer a "perfect" grip that he would stop doing all the things that make him a bogey golfer (fat/thin shots, slicing, etc)?

[mcanadiens]

My two cents for what it's worth.

As someone who started playing rather late in life, I learned grip relatively recently. Having a more proper grip certainly helped, but plenty of other things have made more of a difference towards the modest amount of improvement I've had so far. 

I'm a long way away from having anything mastered, but our hosts' advice on Key 1 (Steady head) and Key 2 (Weight forward) have helped me hit far better shots than I was just a year or two ago. 

 

 

[DaveP043]

18 minutes ago, collapse said:

18 if you wish.....pretty significant for something almost taken for granted by most HC.

And in those 18 pages, he never once discusses the "natural" position of either hand, or arm, or anything else.  He is also very specific in what he feels are the requirements of a good grip, although as has been mentioned many times here, there are great golfers using a wide variety of grips.  This shows that Hogan, as valuable as his writings are, doesn't have the only answer to the grip.  Additionally, Hogan never makes the claim that the grip is the single most important part of a golf swing.  He states that "good golf begins with a good grip," and follows 18 pages of grip discussion with 70-some more pages of discussion of the other important facets of a golf swing.  None of those 70-some pages suggest than anything is automatic once a good grip is achieved.

[collapse]

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

  He states that "good golf begins with a good grip," 

ok...This is where I am coming from.

11 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Do you honestly think that if you gave a bogey golfer a "perfect" grip that he would stop doing all the things that make him a bogey golfer (fat/thin shots, slicing, etc)?

My guess is he goes to low double or high single much more rapidly than currently seen.