Why Isn't It OK To Drive Your Push Carts or Trolleys Through The Green?

[uitar9]

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It's an interesting topic.

One thing I always find interesting is the business of not walking on someone 's lie.

If I play a heavily played course, starting say at 2 oclock in the pm there's probably been a couple hundred folks stomping all over the greens. Much more concentrated weight. Ball marks everywhere.

What's a couple hundred more carts.

Having said that, I don't see where leaving a cart next to a green I'm putting on slows down the game. It sure will if I think I walk to the next tee and walk back. That saves me nothing.

[x3nt0n]

I have been somewhat confused by the difference in courses attitudes towards the use of trolleys in the winter/in wet conditions. I assumed that at some point in history all trolleys had really thin wheels and were extremely heavy, 'digging' into all but the driest and hardest of surfaces. I thought some clubs had realised golf trolleys were lighter and less damaging, whilst some saw no reason to change hundred year old rules. I liken it to the ban on braided fishing line, still in force on many UK waters. Very old braided line was dangerous. Modern braid is very soft and safer than it's mono filament equivalent, however, people are hesitant to change rules to reflect modern times and equipment.

I wonder if there's a certain element of that with trolleys on greens?

[Lihu]

  On 1/3/2016 at 8:08 PM, x3nt0n said:

I have been somewhat confused by the difference in courses attitudes towards the use of trolleys in the winter/in wet conditions. I assumed that at some point in history all trolleys had really thin wheels and were extremely heavy, 'digging' into all but the driest and hardest of surfaces. I thought some clubs had realised golf trolleys were lighter and less damaging, whilst some saw no reason to change hundred year old rules. I liken it to the ban on braided fishing line, still in force on many UK waters. Very old braided line was dangerous. Modern braid is very soft and safer than it's mono filament equivalent, however, people are hesitant to change rules to reflect modern times and equipment.

I wonder if there's a certain element of that with trolleys on greens?

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Is there a good reason to roll your trolley onto the greens?

[Golfingdad]

  On 1/3/2016 at 8:54 PM, Lihu said:

Is there a good reason to roll your trolley onto the greens?

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Perhaps not, however, there is a link near the beginning of the thread (posted 3 different times :P) that explains why Australia believes there is a good reason for it.  And the reasoning in my hypothetical in the OP was to potentially minimize the amount of walking on the green, that I imagined might have caused more damage.  (You guys made some decent counter arguments to that one though) :)

[x3nt0n]

  On 1/3/2016 at 8:54 PM, Lihu said:

Is there a good reason to roll your trolley onto the greens?

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I would have never considered it prior to reading his thread. However, there's evidence to suggest (from the thread about trolleys on greens in Austriallia) that it is done and it doesn't cause damage. I just wondered if the rules were based on old more damaging equipment.

[Lihu]

  On 1/3/2016 at 9:40 PM, Golfingdad said:

Perhaps not, however, there is a link near the beginning of the thread (posted 3 different times :P) that explains why Australia believes there is a good reason for it.  And the reasoning in my hypothetical in the OP was to potentially minimize the amount of walking on the green, that I imagined might have caused more damage.  (You guys made some decent counter arguments to that one though) :)

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Right, so I didn't really see the comparison to courses around here. . .

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"They're a little bit like golfers in the U.K. in the sense that they just don't overdo their maintenance, and the expectations of golfers aren't quite as high in terms of having perfect wall-to-wall conditions, which directly is reflected in the cost to play the game," Mike Davis said after making his first visit Down Under for last November's Presidents Cup. "Because their standards aren't as demanding for things like the rough, they don't over-irrigate or over-fertilize, and it's kind of how I remember golf being where I grew up. We've certainly gotten away from those values in this country."***

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My guess is that they are more links style courses, and the greens are not necessarily in very good condition even without additional "use" wear from trolleys.

If it's some local goat track where there are big brown spots on the "greens", I don't see a reason to not allow carts although "tradition" beckons me to mention it to the person doing it.

Still don't see a compelling reason for it?

***However, I do see a compelling reason to bring back links style courses and reduced maintenance courses where it could be more like AU? Water is an issue here in So. Cal. and those types of courses could be better towards our water conservation goals? Although, hopefully not desperately needed in the near future?

[Coronagolfman]

  On 12/31/2015 at 1:40 AM, Golfingdad said:

Lol, that makes sense.  We saw during the Open that there is almost no way to discern between the fairways and greens (and tees) so it stands to reason that it would be allowed there. And I would love to play there someday!

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If you do make it to Tacoma to play Chambers Bay, there is a great restaurant called El Gaucho there that features flaming filet mignon served on large swords - great food and quite a show.  Ruth's Chris or Morton's level of pricing but worth it.

[natureboy]

  On 1/3/2016 at 8:54 PM, Lihu said:

Is there a good reason to roll your trolley onto the greens?

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If the greens are pretty large it could save a little time. It certainly would be more convenient.

[Club Rat]

Here's Three good reasons..... "Center, Left and Right Wheels"

Took this photo today just for this topic. I tried rolling a ball down the rut to see how far it would travel in the rut. It stayed in the rut until it stopped. The outside wheels created a rut about 3/8" deep into the green. When I putted across the ruts, the ball hopped about 3" upward.

 

[Golfingdad]

  On 1/4/2016 at 4:41 AM, Club Rat said:

Here's Three good reasons..... "Center, Left and Right Wheels"

Took this photo today just for this topic. I tried rolling a ball down the rut to see how far it would travel in the rut. It stayed in the rut until it stopped. The outside wheels created a rut about 3/8" deep into the green. When I putted across the ruts, the ball hopped about 3" upward.

 

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Case closed, lol.

Those wheels look much more narrow than the wheels I picture on newer push carts, but maybe not.  Also, the center track does something goofy during the big right turn.  Not sure what's going on there.

[Lihu]

  On 1/4/2016 at 4:41 AM, Club Rat said:

Here's Three good reasons..... "Center, Left and Right Wheels"

Took this photo today just for this topic. I tried rolling a ball down the rut to see how far it would travel in the rut. It stayed in the rut until it stopped. The outside wheels created a rut about 3/8" deep into the green. When I putted across the ruts, the ball hopped about 3" upward.

 

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I've seen this before as well, but not nearly so bad!?!

[boogielicious]

  On 1/4/2016 at 5:20 AM, Golfingdad said:

Case closed, lol.

Those wheels look much more narrow than the wheels I picture on newer push carts, but maybe not.  Also, the center track does something goofy during the big right turn.  Not sure what's going on there.

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The cart companies are making the wheels smaller so the cart folds up smaller. Wide wheels would alleviate this, but not as much as we'd like.

[caniac6]

I'm sorry if this has already been brought up, but it would be interesting to know how differently the Sand Belt greens were cared for vs the typical American green. 

Are there differences in construction - native soils vs greens mix

Aerification practices and schedules

Drainage methods - surface vs subsurface

Types of grasses

[Club Rat]

  On 1/4/2016 at 5:20 AM, Golfingdad said:

 Also, the center track does something goofy during the big right turn.  Not sure what's going on there.

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Most likely the golfer was pushing the cart and pressed down on the handle, lifting some of the weight off the front wheel causing it to swivel.

[iacas]

It's not case closed.

Both Clicgear carts. I would do more damage pulling these through the rough and flattening the longer grass than I do over firm to normal greens. 

[Lihu]

  On 1/4/2016 at 4:18 PM, iacas said:

It's not case closed.

Both Clicgear carts. I would do more damage pulling these through the rough and flattening the longer grass than I do over firm to normal greens. 

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Just measured my Bag Boys, and they are a tad narrower as compared to the Click Gear you show.

I agree that firm to normal greens are probably not too much of an issue, but I still hate to pull something over a green of any kind. It just doesn't "feel" right to me. People take pretty good care of greens even on my home course where we let people park cars on the fairways. Even though I'm relatively new to golf, I feel like it's just wrong.

[iacas]

  On 1/4/2016 at 4:29 PM, Lihu said:

Just measured my Bag Boys, and they are a tad narrower as compared to the Click Gear you show (2.25").

I agree that firm to normal greens are probably not too much of an issue, but I still hate to pull something over a green of any kind. It just doesn't "feel" right to me. People take pretty good care of greens even on my home course where we let people park cars on the fairways. Even though I'm relatively new to golf, I feel like it's just wrong.

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They're nearly 2.5. The kid's cart with the inflatable tires is fully 2.5. You're not seeing the edge due to the shadows.

Also, you are not "relatively new to golf."

I stand by the point that you often do more damage flattening rough than you do to a putting green… which is why superintendents and pros like people to take their push carts well around the greenside bunkers, too, and stay well away from the greens: because they flatten the rough where the delicate short game shots are hit.

[Lihu]

  On 1/4/2016 at 4:40 PM, iacas said:

They're nearly 2.5. The kid's cart with the inflatable tires is fully 2.5. You're not seeing the edge due to the shadows.

Also, you are not "relatively new to golf."

I stand by the point that you often do more damage flattening rough than you do to a putting green… which is why superintendents and pros like people to take their push carts well around the greenside bunkers, too, and stay well away from the greens: because they flatten the rough where the delicate short game shots are hit.

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Yes, I totally agree with this as well and will act accordingly in the future. Near green divots are bad enough to contend with. . .

Thanks for the comment on not being relatively new, but I see so many golfers on this site who have been at this game for so much longer than me that it's kind of humbling. . .