Hit it Over the Ditch or Lay up Short?

[MacDutch]

This is no birdie-hole for me. First a perfect 3 wood before the ditch, then a 5 wood to get to the green. 

[9wood]

33 minutes ago, vangator said:

I shoot the ditch if the carry was too great.  Laying up presents a long approach.

I play a course with a somewhat similar hole.  Ditch is 240 from the tee with 20 yard carry uphill.  Trouble on both side of the fairway if you clear.  So, this requires a tee shot with 260 carry and accurate.  The hole is only 360 yards though. 

When I was a lad, I'd drive the ditch all the time, once within 30 yards.  Now I typically lay up with an iron and hit an 8 iron in.

If the tee is up so that the carry id only 245 or so, I go for it, but that extra 15 yards or so is right in that zone I don't like to mess with especially on a 360 yard hole.  The hole was obviously designed as a layup.  The back tees requires over 300 yards to carry ditch.  That's not part of my game.

If I had a day where there was a 40 mph wind at my back and was teeing off with a low spin ball like the Volvik, then I might try to take my driver and attempt to go over the ditch. But then again, I still would be risking the chance of losing a good quality ball in the process. Nah, I'll lay up.

[boogielicious]

13 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I would lay up and hit 3 wood on my 2nd shot.  

Same with me. That is right in the middle of my carry distance.

[MrQster]

2 questions would determine the answer: 1) can you clear 240 consistently and 2) how serious are you about your game (or score)?

Unless you can carry 240 consistently, why even bother trying. Note the key word is consistently, meaning this shot is for someone who don't even see the creek as an issue.  If you have to think about it, then don't.

For me, I can clear this ditch with a decent drive, however considering the fear factor that would make me swing faster, I wouldn't even try because the strength of my game is mostly about course management. I'm more conscious about maintaining a decent score so I would lay up.

[mdl]

Wait.  If your 3w puts you just 10 yards short of the ditch, shouldn't your driver carry the ditch the large majority of the time?  If so, I try to carry the ditch, since a long approach shot dramatically raises your expected score. 

For me it's not a question.  I'd have to have a heavy hurting wind not to carry that every time with driver.

[Lihu]

Actually, one answer I didn't see is "Play from shorter tees so you can carry the hazard".

I think that's kind of an LSW-ish answer. . .

 

2 minutes ago, mdl said:

Wait.  If your 3w puts you just 10 yards short of the ditch, shouldn't your driver carry the ditch the large majority of the time?  If so, I try to carry the ditch, since a long approach shot dramatically raises your expected score.  

This thought crossed my mind as well, but we probably have to assume he meant some of the time.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, 9wood said:

Would you try to drive across the ditch, or hit short of the ditch and be left with about 200 yds still to go for your second shot?

Depends on how wide the hole is. Either I'm going to carry the ditch or I'm going to end up short and left. It's really not in play for me either way.

Assuming I have room to miss with a hook, I'm going for it. I don't gain much from laying up and being 200 out as opposed to hooking it and being 230 out and it takes away the possibility of hitting a good drive and being significantly closer to the green.

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, billchao said:

Depends on how wide the hole is. Either I'm going to carry the ditch or I'm going to end up short and left. It's really not in play for me either way.

Assuming I have room to miss with a hook, I'm going for it. I don't gain much from laying up and being 200 out as opposed to hooking it and being 230 out and it takes away the possibility of hitting a good drive and being significantly closer to the green.

So true. Your chances of hitting a 200 yard approach better than a drive are really low. So, the sensible layup seems to be to layup twice? 180 yards off the tee with whatever you need to get there, 160 yards to within 72 yards then a wedge of some kind and hope for an up and down from there? Seems like a layup option is going to be a safe bogey.

[Jeremie Boop]

4 minutes ago, billchao said:

Depends on how wide the hole is. Either I'm going to carry the ditch or I'm going to end up short and left. It's really not in play for me either way.

Assuming I have room to miss with a hook, I'm going for it. I don't gain much from laying up and being 200 out as opposed to hooking it and being 230 out and it takes away the possibility of hitting a good drive and being significantly closer to the green.

As in many other questions of this type, Bill and I are in agreement here. My miss is a hook and a normal straight drive would carry without issue. This situation is very similar to one I face consistently at my league course. Only ended up in the hazard one time all year.

[billchao]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

So true. Your chances of hitting a 200 yard approach better than a drive are really low. So, the sensible layup seems to be to layup twice? 180 yards off the tee with whatever you need to get there, 160 yards to within 72 yards then a wedge of some kind and hope for an up and down from there? Seems like a layup option is going to be a safe bogey.

The problem with that approach is it requires too many good shots in a row for a high handicap player. Mess up any one of those shots and you make the hole harder for yourself because of your strategy. That factors into the decision, too.

Your suggestion turns the par 4 basically into a par 5, where higher handicap players tend to score higher in relation to par.

1 minute ago, Jeremie Boop said:

As in many other questions of this type, Bill and I are in agreement here. My miss is a hook and a normal straight drive would carry without issue. This situation is very similar to one I face consistently at my league course. Only ended up in the hazard one time all year.

Yea, if I'm in the hazard, I somehow managed to hit my drive well enough to be straight and simultaneously miss it just enough to be just short. It's an unlikely combination. My straight misses tend to be pop-ups or thin. Neither is likely to reach 230.

[9wood]

41 minutes ago, mdl said:

Wait.  If your 3w puts you just 10 yards short of the ditch, shouldn't your driver carry the ditch the large majority of the time? 

 

Since this will be the first year that I carry a driver in my bag then I will have to wait until the course opens to find out. I just purchased a new Cobra Flyz adjustable driver. My old driver was a Ping G2, but I didn't use it. Nevertheless, my 3 wood put me 10 yards short after the roll. I'm thinking my driver might carry into the ditch. Time will tell.

40 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Actually, one answer I didn't see is "Play from shorter tees so you can carry the hazard".

 

It just so happens that this hole only has one tee box

Edited March 2, 2016 by 9wood

[jsgolfer]

2 hours ago, 9wood said:

Since this will be the first year that I carry a driver in my bag then I will have to wait until the course opens to find out. I just purchased a new Cobra Flyz adjustable driver. My old driver was a Ping G2, but I didn't use it. Nevertheless, my 3 wood put me 10 yards short after the roll. I'm thinking my driver might carry into the ditch. Time will tell.

It just so happens that this hole only has one tee box

But not several tees, everyone plays from the same spot on the tee?

I'd hit it over the creek.

[saevel25]

Depends on how wide the hazard is and how much of the shot zone it takes up. In this case, with my game, it's carry the ditch 100% of the time. 

[9wood]

5 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

But not several tees, everyone plays from the same spot on the tee?

I'd hit it over the creek.

You are able to move your tee about 10 feet side to side and front to back so there's not a whole lot of difference no matter which spot you tee off from

[jsgolfer]

1 minute ago, 9wood said:

You are able to move your tee about 10 feet side to side and front to back so there's not a whole lot of difference no matter which spot you tee off from

That's a very odd tee. I don't believe I've ever seen that. Did the same person design the tee that designed the gimmicky green?

[SavvySwede]

8 minutes ago, 9wood said:

You are able to move your tee about 10 feet side to side and front to back so there's not a whole lot of difference no matter which spot you tee off from

So the entire tee box is 10'×10'? Is there any grass on it?

[9wood]

8 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

That's a very odd tee. I don't believe I've ever seen that. Did the same person design the tee that designed the gimmicky green?

No

1 minute ago, SavvySwede said:

So the entire tee box is 10'×10'? Is there any grass on it?

Yes

[dave s]

Sadly, the ditch isn't in my way. 

That said, I'd hit driver, 5-wood second shot and take things from there.  Pitch or chip it close and make par would be my  hope. Heck, after two good shots, I might just chip it in for birdie.  Could happen.  It's early in the year and I'm optimistic.

dave