Hit it Over the Ditch or Lay up Short?

[newtogolf]

I thought about this a bit more but location and time of season would also influence the decision.  If the ditch is 240 out I'd have no chance regardless of location or outside temperature to carry it so I'm still laying up and hitting 3 wood.  

If it were 220 yards in mid summer or at high altitude I might try to carry it.  

[9wood]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

412 yards with a roughly 245 forced carry and one tee box is kind of an unrealistic hole for most golfers. Unless you average 260+ off the tee, it's going to be risky. At least a layup does not leave you with the 200 yard approach shot you stated earlier. Most bogey golfers have a decent chance to get near the green from 180 yards.

The numbers on the ditch which I presented earlier were based on my best estimation. After examining it more closely using the Swing by Swing app, the ditch measures to be out approximately 240 yards. That might change the strategy of some in here. I personally think a layup is the best option for the majority of golfers. For me, I can't do anything but layup. 

[Lihu]

36 minutes ago, 9wood said:

The numbers on the ditch which I presented earlier were based on my best estimation. After examining it more closely using the Swing by Swing app, the ditch measures to be out approximately 240 yards. That might change the strategy of some in here. I personally think a layup is the best option for the majority of golfers. For me, I can't do anything but layup. 

This would be a 251 carry. That's not good odds for a lot of people. For me a 3W would have too much chance of rolling into the ditch. So, it would be a hybrid then 6i not a chance for birdie.

 

[vangator]

Number 8 at Bardmoor CC is a par 5 with a water hazard running across the fairway.  It's about 260 to the water and 285 to carry.  I always layup when playing with normal humans.  However we have a couple of very good golfing gorillas in our league that routinely drive over this.  When I play against them, I mostly lay up, but when I need to, I have taken my driver and put it purposely on an adjoining fairway (actually adjoining tee box) without fear of hitting it in the water.  The water doesn't extend into that hole.  I can then go at the green in two.  From the layup position in my own fairway, I need to hit another layup to avoid the hazards that pinch the fairway before the green.

One of these gorillas, playing against me,  hit his driver in the water.  Drops a ball (hitting 3) and puts the next ball on the green (at least 275 yards) and makes the putt for birdie.  I was impressed and also lost the hole when I missed my birdie putt.

PS, how do you paste the pics into here?  I think posting the pic when talking about a particular hole really helps.

Edited March 3, 2016 by vangator

[djfajt71]

11 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Amen!  It basically makes it a short par 5 for me.

Not to mention for @PEZGolf!

[DaveP043]

21 hours ago, 9wood said:

I think this might be interesting. Here's a scenario. You're about to tee off on a 412 yd. par 4 hole and you would really like a birdie, yet you will settle for par if you have to. 

Here's where I take a little bit of issue.  I would really like a birdie on every hole I play, I'll accept par on every hole I play, but what I REALLY want is to shoot the lowest score I can on every hole.  That means making smart choices on every shot, based on the lie, the distances, the hazards, and based on my understanding of my own game.  The idea that I'd "really like a birdie" should never come into my decision making, unless its late in a match play round and I need a win on that hole.  Even in match play, its almost always best to keep your ball in play, and force your opponent to perform, rather than take a risk, take a penalty stroke, and make it easy on him.   

Having said all that, I can't carry that ditch very often, I'd make sure I was short, get it at least close to the green, and make my par that way.  If I make birdie, great, but I only start thinking birdie after I've hit my second shot.

[9wood]

This is the hole we have been discussing. Correction - It should read 3rd hole rather than 9th

Edited March 3, 2016 by 9wood

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, 9wood said:

This is the hole we have been discussing

 

Yes, that's the same one I showed in an earlier post, but the carry would be like 251.

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, vangator said:

PS, how do you paste the pics into here?  I think posting the pic when talking about a particular hole really helps.

http://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-images

[mcanadiens]

4 minutes ago, 9wood said:

This is the hole we have been discussing

This one probably wouldn't be a problem for the likes of me. I'll generally be at least 10 yards short of it.

[vangator]

11 minutes ago, 9wood said:

This is the hole we have been discussing. Correction - It should read 3rd hole rather than 9th

You need to talk to those folks about another set of tees.  That' just not right.

However, with the higher elevation, you should get a little more carry.  I know I hit the ball farther when I visit WNY vs Florida at sea level.

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

http://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-images

Thank you.  I'll try it out soon!

[Dave2512]

I don't ever get to a tee and think I'd really like a birdie here. I know from stats that only happens about 3% of the time so not often. I do make par at 47% so I look at the hole and plan how to not make a mistake aka bogey or worse.

[Golfingdad]

18 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Here's where I take a little bit of issue.  I would really like a birdie on every hole I play, I'll accept par on every hole I play, but what I REALLY want is to shoot the lowest score I can on every hole.  That means making smart choices on every shot, based on the lie, the distances, the hazards, and based on my understanding of my own game.  The idea that I'd "really like a birdie" should never come into my decision making, unless its late in a match play round and I need a win on that hole.  Even in match play, its almost always best to keep your ball in play, and force your opponent to perform, rather than take a risk, take a penalty stroke, and make it easy on him.  

 

2 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I don't ever get to a tee and think I'd really like a birdie here. I know from stats that only happens about 3% of the time so not often. I do make par at 47% so I look at the hole and plan how to not make a mistake aka bogey or worse.

I agree with both you on! 

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, vangator said:

You need to talk to those folks about another set of tees.  That' just not right.

Agree.

 

Quote

However, with the higher elevation, you should get a little more carry.  I know I hit the ball farther when I visit WNY vs Florida at sea level.

http://www.pga.com/seniorpga/2010/news/altitude.html

Elevation of Niagara: 614 feet. So, an estimate of distance increase is 0.00116*614= 0.71224%

Can you really tell a difference of only 0.7%?

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Agree.

 

http://www.pga.com/seniorpga/2010/news/altitude.html

Elevation of Niagara: 614 feet. So, an estimate of distance increase is 0.00116*614= 0.71224%

Can you really tell a difference of only 0.7%?

Yes, about the length of a driver. More importantly, it would be just enough for my drive to roll into the ditch!

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, vangator said:

However, with the higher elevation, you should get a little more carry.  I know I hit the ball farther when I visit WNY vs Florida at sea level.

This always puzzles me. The difference between 800 feet of elevation versus 50 or so is not that much.

At a mile in the air it's only about 6% average gains.

It's off topic so the rest I put in a spoiler. Two images.

Spoiler

 

[Lihu]

Just now, boogielicious said:

Yes, about the length of a driver. More importantly, it would be just enough for my drive to roll into the ditch!

I stand corrected. . .

[9wood]

45 minutes ago, vangator said:

You need to talk to those folks about another set of tees.  That' just not right.

However, with the higher elevation, you should get a little more carry.  I know I hit the ball farther when I visit WNY vs Florida at sea level.

Thank you.  I'll try it out soon!

Personally I like the challenge this hole presents. The real challenge for me comes on my second shot. I have as yet to hit the green on my second shot but I am getting closer. Once again, I'm hoping my new clubs might help me accomplish that so I can have a shot at a birdie. Other people I know who have this as their home course are always saying they try to drive their ball over the ditch but none of those I have talked to have said they were able to. I paired up one day with a self-professed hot-shot who told me that he drives over the ditch, but when he attempted it, he came up short. I have never as yet seen anyone who has done it. Those I know who have tried have always put it in the ditch. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I haven't seen anyone do it as yet.

Concerning getting more carry in WNY, Last year, I took a golfing friend of mine who moved to Florida 3 years ago to this course for a golf outing when he visited me. He lived in WNY all his life except the last three years. He has like a 3 HC. While we were playing this WNY course, he kept saying that it seemed like he was a club short on most of his shots, and that if this was Florida that the clubs he was using for the distance would have done the trick for him in Florida.