Presidential Race 2016

[newtogolf]

On 4/29/2016 at 6:20 PM, Mr. Desmond said:

It's a great point, and I did think about it when posting. I think there is a difference between Trump and some "other" politicians - the breadth of difference in the "pandering" varies. I think Trump takes it 2-3 steps further. It boils down to his whole personna being larger than the sum of the parts. He says so many things that are false of other candidates/President, the personal attacks and pettiness, states things he wants to do that are already being done, his brash, larger than life language, and his statements that contradict each other. For example, his foreign policy speech shows contradiction and lack of knowledge. He wants to help bring back manufacturing but then indicates that we can't compete in certain areas. It's disconcerting. 

He comes across as the town bully with a brash tongue and a lack of knowledge as to solutions other than "we'll make it great," or "I will make it happen." It's as if by shear force of his personality that "America Will Be Great Again..." whatever that motto means because it is different for everyone.

Donald seems to indicate he has a magic wand to eradicate our problems. I wish someone had a magic wand... but no one does.

But, it's not pandering when democrats promise free iPhones, free college educations, free healthcare, pardons 200,000 criminals and offers immunity to millions of illegal immigrants??

You're really showing your liberal bias when you take on these arguments and choose to only point out how Trump is pandering.    

[saevel25]

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

But, it's not pandering when democrats

No one says they don't. I wouldn't assume because someone talks only about Trump pandering that it means no one else does. It's not an either or thing here. 

It's not biased. Do all candidates pander, sure. Trump is an outsider to the political establishment. So isolating him and how he works to get votes is important to understand. It's only natural to focus on him because he's an unknown. 

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

No one says they don't. I wouldn't assume because someone talks only about Trump pandering that it means no one else does. It's not an either or thing here. 

It's not biased. Do all candidates pander, sure. Trump is an outsider to the political establishment. So isolating him and how he works to get votes is important to understand. It's only natural to focus on him because he's an unknown. 

Here is the quote, 

Quote

It's a great point, and I did think about it when posting. I think there is a difference between Trump and some "other" politicians - the breadth of difference in the "pandering" varies. I think Trump takes it 2-3 steps further. 

Trump isn't offering free college degrees, iphones, pardons or immunity to illegal aliens, so I'd say his pandering is far less than what Clinton and Bernie are tossing out there.   It is biased when you just point out one person or side is doing something when both sides are doing it.  

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

Here is the quote, 

Trump isn't offering free college degrees, iphones, pardons or immunity to illegal aliens, so I'd say his pandering is far less than what Clinton and Bernie are tossing out there.   It is biased when you just point out one person or side is doing something when both sides are doing it.  

As for Trump, his pandering might be much worse in some ways. He's pandering to people's negative emotions. He's stoking the anger and frustration built up from years of jobs being lost to Mexico and China. It's not fake. In no way should it be down played. Yet, in a lot of ways it's dangerous to do. 

When the voting base of this country is shifting more and more away from being a white majority. His type of speeches do not serve him well. 

[Golfingdad]

30 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Here is the quote, 

Trump isn't offering free college degrees, iphones, pardons or immunity to illegal aliens, so I'd say his pandering is far less than what Clinton and Bernie are tossing out there.   It is biased when you just point out one person or side is doing something when both sides are doing it.  

When I think of pandering, I don't think of campaign promises, but rather the stuff they are so clearly faking.  Trump probably really believes he can get the wall built as I'm sure Sanders really believes he can get college to be free.

But it's the stuff like Hillary pretending like she's normal and rides the subway while she can't figure out the metro card, and Cruz acting like he knows and/or likes basketball while he's in Indiana (and refers to the hoop as a basketball RING).

That clearly fake stuff is the pandering that I think is dumb and I think they all do it equally.  All of them.

[nevets88]

19 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

When I think of pandering, I don't think of campaign promises, but rather the stuff they are so clearly faking.  Trump probably really believes he can get the wall built as I'm sure Sanders really believes he can get college to be free.

But it's the stuff like Hillary pretending like she's normal and rides the subway while she can't figure out the metro card, and Cruz acting like he knows and/or likes basketball while he's in Indiana (and refers to the hoop as a basketball RING).

That clearly fake stuff is the pandering that I think is dumb and I think they all do it equally.  All of them.

 

Spoiler

To be fair, if you swipe a certain way, you'll definitely get a misread And some cards just don't like you. But an SS detail in the subway, not normal, roger that, Evergreen is in the subway car, I repeat, Evergreen is in the subway car. 

[newtogolf]

12 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

As for Trump, his pandering might be much worse in some ways. He's pandering to people's negative emotions. He's stoking the anger and frustration built up from years of jobs being lost to Mexico and China. It's not fake. In no way should it be down played. Yet, in a lot of ways it's dangerous to do. 

When the voting base of this country is shifting more and more away from being a white majority. His type of speeches do not serve him well. 

No desire to debate with you whether Trump's pandering is worse than the others.  We have a right to be angry, our government has failed us for the last 16 years and no one seems focused on making critical changes to improve it except Trump.  

Bernie and Hillary offering more free stuff and higher minimum wages we can't afford is equally dangerous, people need to stop expecting handouts, get off their asses (if they're capable) and go work for what they want.  

Trump is taking a calculated risk, it could pay off or it could cost him the election but I prefer his method over just offering free stuff and amnesty in exchange for votes.  

14 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

When I think of pandering, I don't think of campaign promises, but rather the stuff they are so clearly faking.  Trump probably really believes he can get the wall built as I'm sure Sanders really believes he can get college to be free.

But it's the stuff like Hillary pretending like she's normal and rides the subway while she can't figure out the metro card, and Cruz acting like he knows and/or likes basketball while he's in Indiana (and refers to the hoop as a basketball RING).

That clearly fake stuff is the pandering that I think is dumb and I think they all do it equally.  All of them.

I agree 100%, they are all fake and have told so many lies I doubt they have an idea of who they really are.  

[Braivo]

3 hours ago, saevel25 said:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/in/indiana_republican_presidential_primary-5786.html

5 out of the 8 polls averaged have it a single digit lead. Still a lead though. 

The more recent ones are trending in his favor, and historically the WSJ/NBC polls have been heavily biased against Trump, so to come out 15 points ahead on that one is big. I like his chances. Cruz is imploding. 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

As for Trump, his pandering might be much worse in some ways. He's pandering to people's negative emotions. He's stoking the anger and frustration built up from years of jobs being lost to Mexico and China. It's not fake. In no way should it be down played. Yet, in a lot of ways it's dangerous to do. 

When the voting base of this country is shifting more and more away from being a white majority. His type of speeches do not serve him well. 

There is a significant population in this country that do not want this shift to happen, and they aren't just white people. His message continues to resonate with more and more people. Look at the rally in CA on Thursday where illegal immigrants were rioting, waving the Mexican flag, and flipping cop cars. The irony of that is lost on so many.

39 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

No desire to debate with you whether Trump's pandering is worse than the others.  We have a right to be angry, our government has failed us for the last 16 years and no one seems focused on making critical changes to improve it except Trump.  

Bernie and Hillary offering more free stuff and higher minimum wages we can't afford is equally dangerous, people need to stop expecting handouts, get off their asses (if they're capable) and go work for what they want.  

Trump is taking a calculated risk, it could pay off or it could cost him the election but I prefer his method over just offering free stuff and amnesty in exchange for votes.  

I agree 100%, they are all fake and have told so many lies I doubt they have an idea of who they really are.  

What a novel concept, to focus on Americans and their problems FIRST. What Trump is doing isn't anything complicated, and that is exactly why it is working. A revolution is underway and it is not going to stop. Even the center-left are starting to adopt the anti-PC message in response the far-left getting more and more control over speech. 

[jamo]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

Trump isn't offering free college degrees, iphones, pardons or immunity to illegal aliens, so I'd say his pandering is far less than what Clinton and Bernie are tossing out there.   It is biased when you just point out one person or side is doing something when both sides are doing it.  

Who's offering free iPhones?

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

There is a significant population in this country that do not want this shift to happen, and they aren't just white people. 

It would be interesting to see a demographic poll on this. I would say minorities are more sympathetic to other minorities. I would say it's a good bet that it is heavily weighted from the white demographic. That is shown in Trump's biggest voter base being white. That isn't to say other people don't vote for him. Just saying what makes up his foundation to his voter base. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/03/28/will_demographics_sink_donald_trump_130095.html

Even though the people of this country fear the minorities increasing it doesn't stop the fact they have over the past 20 years. It doesn't help Trump that he alienated one particularly large minority group. 

2 minutes ago, jamo said:

Who's offering free iPhones?

I think that came from one of the people who campaigned for Obama when he won in 2008 was shown on TV yelling, "We're all getting free iphones". I think she was delusional. 

[newtogolf]

17 minutes ago, jamo said:

Who's offering free iPhones?

Not iphone just free cell phones.  

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Not iphone just free cell phones.  

But you said Iphones

[newtogolf]

7 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

But you said Iphones

It was a typo, I know you're familiar with them. 

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It was a typo, I know you're familiar with them. 

I have no clue what you are talking about 

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

 

  Hide contents

To be fair, if you swipe a certain way, you'll definitely get a misread And some cards just don't like you. But an SS detail in the subway, not normal, roger that, Evergreen is in the subway car, I repeat, Evergreen is in the subway car. 

I may have based my opinion off the SNL skit where they showed her trying to swipe with the magnetic strip upside down.  It looked like she was holding that normally and I know first hand that those can be finicky.  Regardless, my one example may be off but the point stands.

19 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It was a typo, I know you're familiar with them. 

Sorry, but this is one of the funniest things I've read on here lately. 

[Chilli Dipper]

4 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Here is the quote, 

Trump isn't offering free college degrees, iphones, pardons or immunity to illegal aliens, so I'd say his pandering is far less than what Clinton and Bernie are tossing out there.   It is biased when you just point out one person or side is doing something when both sides are doing it.  

If all politicians are pandering, I'll side with the one promising to make my life better over the one promising to make other people's lives worse.

"Free stuff?" Sure, I'll take some. If I don't get it, big deal.

"America's going down the toilet, and it's all the Mexicans'/Muslims'/gays'/unions'/liberals'/China's fault; let's take it out on them?" That attitude goes against my personal values, and what I believe are common American civic values. Frankly, the other side doesn't need to offer me free stuff to vote against that.

[Gunther]

5 hours ago, saevel25 said:

When the voting base of this country is shifting more and more away from being a white majority. His type of speeches do not serve him well. 

And you've just made the best argument that Trump panders least.  He doesn't give a shit about where the voting base is trending in terms of racial demographics.  He just knows America is the greatest force for good that has ever existed and it has diminished the past 8 years.  He wants to make America great again.  Lots of folks hate that message, many of whom are in is own party.  Trump is a lot of things, panderer would not be one of them.

[Chilli Dipper]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

And you've just made the best argument that Trump panders least.  He doesn't give a shit about where the voting base is trending in terms of racial demographics.  He just knows America is the greatest force for good that has ever existed and it has diminished the past 8 years.  He wants to make America great again.  Lots of folks hate that message, many of whom are in is own party.  Trump is a lot of things, panderer would not be one of them.

Bullcrap. This is a man who has absolutely no shame about being the adopted messiah of the white supremacist movement. He wants to blow up the global geopolitical consensus that has been in place since at least the end of the Cold War, and replace it with a diplomacy where America doesn't help you unless you pay up and kiss the ring. A foreign policy platform that he has attached a slogan to which comes with the legacy of those who would have let the rest of the Western world succumb to the forces of fascism, and allow the extermination of Europe's Jewish population to continue unabated, because it was none of our business. That's not how liberal democracies conduct their business, and I'll be damned if we start doing the bidding of any tyrant or authoritarian strongman who knows to butter Trump up.

Donald Trump is already on the wrong side of history, and if your entire campaign has been built on a mountain of bluster and scapegoating, pandering is all you've got.