Presidential Race 2016

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

At this point all citizens have equal rights, I don't consider which bathroom a transgender uses to be something our federal government needs to get involved with.  We are talking about today and the future, so no need to keep going back to the past for examples.  

It's not ... Until dumbasses in North Carolina masquerading as leaders start enacting laws about it.  The Federal Government might have no choice but to step in.

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

It's not ... Until dumbasses in North Carolina masquerading as leaders start enacting laws about it.  The Federal Government might have no choice but to step in.

Right, that's the primary function of our federal government to protect our constitutional rights secondary is defending our nation.

Unfortunately, NC stepped over the line on first amendment rights.

No matter how stupid is their belief, it's their right to think they are entitled to use the ladies room as they identify.  Although, they should have to pay to have their identities legally changed and if requested to show proof of their sexual identity by any authority.

[jamo]

6 hours ago, Lihu said:

Although, they should have to pay to have their identities legally changed and if requested to show proof of their sexual identity by any authority.

What would that entail?

[saevel25]

6 hours ago, Lihu said:

Unfortunately, NC stepped over the line on first amendment rights.

No matter how stupid is their belief, it's their right to think they are entitled to use the ladies room as they identify.  Although, they should have to pay to have their identities legally changed and if requested to show proof of their sexual identity by any authority.

That's not a first amendment right. 

It's not a right to think they are entitled to. It's more that the way gender is defined has changed to encompass not just the gender you were born with. As such, it changes the way we view how bathrooms are set up or what the social norm is there. 

If you are going to require transgender people to show proof of sexual identity, lets say copy of birth certificate, then every should have to. 

[AbsoluteTruths]

8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

 It's more that the way gender is defined has changed to encompass not just the gender you were born with. As such, it changes the way we view how bathrooms are set up or what the social norm is there. 

 

How can the definition of gender be changed? I have not changed my definition.

6 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

It's not ... Until dumbasses in North Carolina masquerading as leaders start enacting laws about it.  The Federal Government might have no choice but to step in.

The federal government has no right to step in. The federal government was only suppose to protect our country militarily and mediate disputes between states until we gave them all these other rights. This intervention by the Fed is purely political theater. If NC made separate but equal bathrooms just for conservatives you would not hear a peep out of DC.

[saevel25]

20 minutes ago, AbsoluteTruths said:

How can the definition of gender be changed? I have not changed my definition.

Your definition doesn't matter in the face of science. 

People defined the center of the universe as our the earth. They were wrong. Definitions change. 

21 minutes ago, AbsoluteTruths said:

This intervention by the Fed is purely political theater. If NC made separate but equal bathrooms just for conservatives you would not hear a peep out of DC.

Any state that enacts these laws are doing by for just politics. It has nothing to do with safety. 

[jamo]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Any state that enacts these laws are doing by for just politics. It has nothing to do with safety. 

+1.

[Braivo]

Back on topic. 

Where does the Democrat race stand? Does Bernie have any realistic chance to take down HRC?

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, jamo said:

What would that entail?

Legally changing their status, which would prevent some people from randomly entering the wrong sex bathrooms or whatnot.

 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

That's not a first amendment right. 

It's not a right to think they are entitled to. It's more that the way gender is defined has changed to encompass not just the gender you were born with. As such, it changes the way we view how bathrooms are set up or what the social norm is there. 

If you are going to require transgender people to show proof of sexual identity, lets say copy of birth certificate, then every should have to. 

Agree, fully.

It's a belief that they are a transgender. For those who are physically transgender, there is no need for any belief as they are what they are already legally.

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Back on topic. 

Where does the Democrat race stand? Does Bernie have any realistic chance to take down HRC?

Hillary needs only average 17% of the vote remaining in each state to clinch the Democratic nomination. 

Democrats don't do winner take all states. So it's harder for a candidate to come from behind to win since they never shut out a candidate in any of the states. 

[jamo]

16 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Legally changing their status, which would prevent some people from randomly entering the wrong sex bathrooms or whatnot.

But what does that actually solve? It's not like they check ID when you walk into a bathroom.

To me, laws mandating what bathroom people use are fruitless, pointless, and based entirely on discrimination, not safety. They don't do ID or genital checks when you enter a bathroom, so a biological male who identifies as a woman shouldn't see resistance in a woman's bathroom no matter what the laws are. And anyone dead set on assaulting a child is going to enter whatever bathroom makes that the easiest. Isn't that the argument with guns - that criminals don't care what the laws are anyway?

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, jamo said:

But what does that actually solve? It's not like they check ID when you walk into a bathroom.

To me, laws mandating what bathroom people use are fruitless, pointless, and based entirely on discrimination, not safety. They don't do ID or genital checks when you enter a bathroom, so a biological male who identifies as a woman shouldn't see resistance in a woman's bathroom no matter what the laws are. And anyone dead set on assaulting a child is going to enter whatever bathroom makes that the easiest. Isn't that the argument with guns - that criminals don't care what the laws are anyway?

Of course, but if someone else complains to an authority, then the person in question needs to show proof of identity which would be traceable through an interstate database just like anyone else.

Every person always needs to be able to show proper identification anyway, this will just allow authorities to stop people from randomly selecting a bathroom for purposes other than using it.

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Of course, but if someone else complains to an authority, then the person in question needs to show proof of identity which would be traceable through an interstate database just like anyone else.

So we are going to waste the authorities time now? 

5 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Every person always needs to be able to show proper identification anyway, this will just allow people to stop people from randomly selecting a bathroom for purposes other than using it.

Do you know who many times I am asked to show my ID. Maybe twice a month at best. No one checks ID's when they are suppose to. When buying alcohol. When using your credit card that isn't signed on the back. 

We have more pressing matters to worry about rather than this. 

[Lihu]

Just now, saevel25 said:

So we are going to waste the authorities time now? 

Do you know who many times I am asked to show my ID. Maybe twice a month at best. No one checks ID's when they are suppose to. When buying alcohol. When using your credit card that isn't signed on the back. 

We have more pressing matters to worry about rather than this. 

Practically, it would not be any more than we do already. Someone does something wrong, they are called into question. Just like any other crime***. The authority could also just be a security guard hired by the store to insure the safety of the store and the people within it.

***The exception is if a bathroom was not working, then people should be allowed to switch but with permission from a restaurant owner or other authority.

[Dave2512]

The bathroom issue has gone further than it should have. People have dreamed up fantastic scenarios for a place people go to use a toilet. 

[Braivo]

Perhaps you guys should start a transgender bathroom thread. This is a thread about the Presidential Race, we've gone past the point where this is relevant to that discussion. 

I am curious as to what Bernie will do after he is officially eliminated. Will he endorse Hillary? That seems to go against his lifetime of fighting the establishment. 

[Chilli Dipper]

If we're positing private businesses hiring bouncers for the toilets, then the law is a complete waste of time and money.

This is people who don't "get" the concept of transgender using laws to target group who has to put up with a lot of abuse as it is. I'm not sure I fully understand transgender, but I have enough empathy to believe they don't deserve to be treated like that.

5 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I am curious as to what Bernie will do after he is officially eliminated. Will he endorse Hillary? That seems to go against his lifetime of fighting the establishment. 

Bernie has said multiple times that he will endorse Hillary if she is the nominee.

[saevel25]

7 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I am curious as to what Bernie will do after he is officially eliminated. Will he endorse Hillary? That seems to go against his lifetime of fighting the establishment. 

He'll support her. 

“Yes, we do agree on a number of issues, and by the way, on her worst day, Hillary Clinton will be an infinitely better candidate and president than the Republican candidate on his best day,” he said. “But having said that, we have very significant differences, and the key difference is I see a nation in which we have a grotesque level of income and wealth inequality.”

- Bernie Sanders