Ego and Golf Clubs

[freshmanUTA]

When making a new club purchase it's easy to let your ego get in the way. Everyone knows that a visually pleasing club helps inspire confidence right? But just cause it's visually pleasing doesn't mean you'll hit it well.

I fell victim of this no less than a week ago. I went into a club fitting unable to hit any of the clubs I was given to try. Titleist, Cobra, Callaway, and Taylormade. Mizuno was the last club I hit before I gave up on forgiving clubs almost entirely. I refused to hit the pings and grabbed the Nike Vapor Pro Combo. Boom, instant good shots. Unfortunately the fitter said that I may need stiffer than a project x6.0 because the 6.0 gave me the best accuracy and distance combo, but I was leaving them to the right which was exaggerated when I tried the 5.5. Out of desire I told him it was fine and I would purchase the nikes with 6.0s when I got paid next.

He called me today and said they got the 6.5 and 7.0 test shafts set up for me and while I was waiting for him to put in the pro combo head I was messing around with the ping g30, just for fun. And boy was I GLAD that I did. I hit the first 7 iron 189 perfectly drawn into the center line, and actually hit the center line. The next three were almost the same. That was with a KBS tour S+ which I tried before.

After I did that I started grabbing every forgiving club I could find and the results were the same, good quality drawn shots. Unfortunately we didn't have time to go back through a whole fitting so we'll be doing that tomorrow or Wednesday but I'm so glad I realize now just how easy forgiving clubs are to hit.

All this because I held off purchasing new clubs and was just messing around with a big chunky ugly iron. Ha.

[BigUnit68]

You're right about the ease of hitting these types of clubs. I was fitted back in February and couldn't believe how well I hit some of those irons.

I settled for TM M2's and it has been a great decision. I am as long and accurate as ever and I am 47 yrs old. It is nice being over 200 out and knowing you can pull a long iron and have the confidence to hit the green.

Played 3 times with them so far and am about 1 1/2 clubs longer than my prior set and more accurate

Hope your fitting goes as well as mine did and you get the right set up for you. This game is much better when you have the right equipment to match your swing.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, freshmanUTA said:

When making a new club purchase it's easy to let your ego get in the way. Everyone knows that a visually pleasing club helps inspire confidence right? But just cause it's visually pleasing doesn't mean you'll hit it well.

I fell victim of this no less than a week ago. I went into a club fitting unable to hit any of the clubs I was given to try. Titleist, Cobra, Callaway, and Taylormade. Mizuno was the last club I hit before I gave up on forgiving clubs almost entirely. I refused to hit the pings and grabbed the Nike Vapor Pro Combo. Boom, instant good shots. Unfortunately the fitter said that I may need stiffer than a project x6.0 because the 6.0 gave me the best accuracy and distance combo, but I was leaving them to the right which was exaggerated when I tried the 5.5. Out of desire I told him it was fine and I would purchase the nikes with 6.0s when I got paid next.

He called me today and said they got the 6.5 and 7.0 test shafts set up for me and while I was waiting for him to put in the pro combo head I was messing around with the ping g30, just for fun. And boy was I GLAD that I did. I hit the first 7 iron 189 perfectly drawn into the center line, and actually hit the center line. The next three were almost the same. That was with a KBS tour S+ which I tried before.

After I did that I started grabbing every forgiving club I could find and the results were the same, good quality drawn shots. Unfortunately we didn't have time to go back through a whole fitting so we'll be doing that tomorrow or Wednesday but I'm so glad I realize now just how easy forgiving clubs are to hit.

All this because I held off purchasing new clubs and was just messing around with a big chunky ugly iron. Ha.

I've been playing i20s for going on 4 years now.  And I've been getting better.  I hit the G30 last fall, and I had the same experience as you, I was blown away.  Kind of weird to think that I am improving while using clubs that are considered more of a "players" iron and now I'm ready to go the other way and start playing SGI irons.  But, hey, if it works, it works, right??

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I've been playing i20s for going on 4 years now.  And I've been getting better.  I hit the G30 last fall, and I had the same experience as you, I was blown away.  Kind of weird to think that I am improving while using clubs that are considered more of a "players" iron and now I'm ready to go the other way and start playing SGI irons.  But, hey, if it works, it works, right??

Exactly. I have a few issues with SGI irons. 

1. Offset, I hate looking at it. 
2. Topline, I don't like chunky clubs
3. Ability to control the height of the shot. It can get difficult with SGI irons and the low CG.
4. Lower spin rates on mid irons and short irons
5. Does the enhanced sweet spot make slight off center impact feel the same as pure strike shots. If so does this cause dispersion issues? 
6. Is a more trampoline effect required on irons? Does this cause hot spots on the iron which would produce the random ball that flies way farther than the average? 

This is probably I will be playing more player type irons for a while. I just like them a lot :) 

[freshmanUTA]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Exactly. I have a few issues with SGI irons. 

1. Offset, I hate looking at it. 
2. Topline, I don't like chunky clubs
3. Ability to control the height of the shot. It can get difficult with SGI irons and the low CG.
4. Lower spin rates on mid irons and short irons
5. Does the enhanced sweet spot make slight off center impact feel the same as pure strike shots. If so does this cause dispersion issues? 
6. Is a more trampoline effect required on irons? Does this cause hot spots on the iron which would produce the random ball that flies way farther than the average? 

This is probably I will be playing more player type irons for a while. I just like them a lot :) 

1. Yes. I hate offset, but if that's the price I've gotta pay for great shots....

2. Yes, ugly toplines are a total turn away. But if that's the price...

3. I don't ever really mess with height of shots and if I have to play more punch type shots I use long irons and even fairway woods.

4. I'm not excited about this, but I heard that weaker lofts helps a small amount, is that true?

5. Yes and yes. I often found myself with that good feeling of a centered strike just to look at the impact tape and see it was heely or most commonly, toey.

6. No, and yes. I had a 3 iron that bombed 20 yards farther than I wanted it and I was happy because of the distance but looking at it now, I probably wouldn't have been too happy on the course.

Hey man, I wanted players irons and they were working for me but I have no problem sacrificing a little(lot) feel now that I see the results I saw.

I may still end up being fit into a smaller iron like the ap2 but I still would like some forgiveness.

[newtogolf]

It's a balance, the first set of clubs I bought we Callaway Diablo Edges.  They were a great SGI club but I had gotten used to the Callaway X-12's my cousin loaned me.  I hit decent shots with them, I couldn't stand looking at them.  I was much happier going with the Mizuno JPX-825's which were still GI / SGI but not as wide and thick as the Diablo Edges.  

The goal is to find the most forgiving set of irons you can be happy playing.  

[SavvySwede]

When I was 15 I got my first iron set for Christmas, I had picked out the Taylormade rac coin forged blades. Maybe not the best decision at the time but I've stuck with blade style irons ever since save for one short experiment with some AP1's. I figure I'll leave some tech on the table for when I get older, that way I can hold off the distance loss for a few extra years once I'm an old man.

[Mike Boatright]

9 hours ago, freshmanUTA said:

When making a new club purchase it's easy to let your ego get in the way. Everyone knows that a visually pleasing club helps inspire confidence right? But just cause it's visually pleasing doesn't mean you'll hit it well.

I fell victim of this no less than a week ago. I went into a club fitting unable to hit any of the clubs I was given to try. Titleist, Cobra, Callaway, and Taylormade. Mizuno was the last club I hit before I gave up on forgiving clubs almost entirely. I refused to hit the pings and grabbed the Nike Vapor Pro Combo. Boom, instant good shots. Unfortunately the fitter said that I may need stiffer than a project x6.0 because the 6.0 gave me the best accuracy and distance combo, but I was leaving them to the right which was exaggerated when I tried the 5.5. Out of desire I told him it was fine and I would purchase the nikes with 6.0s when I got paid next.

He called me today and said they got the 6.5 and 7.0 test shafts set up for me and while I was waiting for him to put in the pro combo head I was messing around with the ping g30, just for fun. And boy was I GLAD that I did. I hit the first 7 iron 189 perfectly drawn into the center line, and actually hit the center line. The next three were almost the same. That was with a KBS tour S+ which I tried before.

After I did that I started grabbing every forgiving club I could find and the results were the same, good quality drawn shots. Unfortunately we didn't have time to go back through a whole fitting so we'll be doing that tomorrow or Wednesday but I'm so glad I realize now just how easy forgiving clubs are to hit.

All this because I held off purchasing new clubs and was just messing around with a big chunky ugly iron. Ha.

I go to golf galaxy and hit in their simulator from time to time and have tried every club with every shaft imaginable and in the end I just buy some grips lol.. Anyway you have a point to a point.. Those big chunky irons for good players like yourself are only effective in the 6 and 7 iron range and it's wise to get one. Not saying you can't play with a g30 or burner 9 iron, but you wouldn't like it into the wind and it's not accurate. Think of a mid iron as a let's hit the green club it's 185 yards medium size target and a green is a success therefore forgiveness is an optimal decision. Now say you got 138 yards this is where a 9 iron or w comes into play preferably a muscle back blade,in fact I would recommend this to all strong players from 15 handicap to 0. The reason being is blades have uniformity in their forging process and will go 138 yards on the number everytime to a T when struck perfectly.. The cast club varies sometimes it jumps sometimes it comes up 5 yards short but it's around there. It's like comparing a frying pan to a hammer the voids and impact points are just different. Shafts matter but in the end brand name isn't that big of a deal. I bought this 1997 Lynx 6 iron at a thrift store for 5 bucks it has a weird stiff graphite shaft jumbo max grip and is big and chunky I love it!! It goes 177 to 190 yards spins 6000 rpm launches high and is perfect for me. The rest of my clubs are hybrids and mizuno blades mp-57 5-9 iron minus the 6 which I abandoned.

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Mike Boatright

[boogielicious]

13 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I've been playing i20s for going on 4 years now.  And I've been getting better.  I hit the G30 last fall, and I had the same experience as you, I was blown away.  Kind of weird to think that I am improving while using clubs that are considered more of a "players" iron and now I'm ready to go the other way and start playing SGI irons.  But, hey, if it works, it works, right??

Same with me. I was playing the AP2. When I got the demo of the AP1 for the site review, I was pleasantly surprised at how good they were. I bought the rest of the set. 

[DrvFrShow]

I originally had a set of Cobra bafflers but I couldn't get used to the look of them even though I hit them well. I don't know why they chopped off the top of the irons. They didn't look like a proper golf club. I swapped them for the BioCells which are a little harder to hit in soft conditions, but they look like proper clubs when addressing the ball. The club face is larger than a player's club but that's fine by me. The top line isn't too thick, but thickness doesn't bother me, nor does thinness. Getting the ball in the air is the goal.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 3/28/2016 at 5:58 PM, freshmanUTA said:

When making a new club purchase it's easy to let your ego get in the way. Everyone knows that a visually pleasing club helps inspire confidence right? But just cause it's visually pleasing doesn't mean you'll hit it well.

Very interesting post!

I have a book by Tom Wishon, a custom club designer and builder, called The Search for the Perfect Golf Club. He designed and built the last set of clubs that Payne Stewart ever owned before his tragic death. He devotes and entire chapter in the book to that process, trying to illustrate, for the amateur, the kinds of questions they should be asking about their clubs.

After many fitting and hitting sessions, with lots of loft and lie tweaking,  Stewart announced that he was pleased with the clubs. Except for one thing. The irons had a certain amount of "offset" built into them, and they performed very well. But, Stewart didn't like the "look" of seeing so much offset. He told Wishon that he'd like to see that reduced, and then he'd take delivery of the clubs.

Now Wishon's in a quandary! How do you reduce the "look" of offset? He eventually figured out a way, and Payne took possession of the clubs. They were with him on the plane that went down.

The take home lesson is "choose performance". We don't have the advantage of working with a private club developer/fitter, but we can tell how the clubs work for us. Don't fall for a pretty face!

[No Mulligans]

I keep putting off getting a fitting as I'm hoping my swing gets better and faster and then I'll get fitted.

I think it's more optimism than ego.  Maybe a little bit of ego bruise though if I get fitted to a senior shaft.

[Buckeyebowman]

14 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

I keep putting off getting a fitting as I'm hoping my swing gets better and faster and then I'll get fitted.

I think it's more optimism than ego.  Maybe a little bit of ego bruise though if I get fitted to a senior shaft.

You're in the same boat as everyone else. Wishon made this point repeatedly in his book. The vast majority of amateurs think exactly as you do. "I'm not good enough for a custom fitting", or "when I get some lessons and get better I'll go get fit."

His point was that the pros are so skillful, that they could probably make any old set off the rack work pretty well. We're the guys that need the help!

[b101]

On 12/04/2016 at 4:21 AM, Buckeyebowman said:

You're in the same boat as everyone else. Wishon made this point repeatedly in his book. The vast majority of amateurs think exactly as you do. "I'm not good enough for a custom fitting", or "when I get some lessons and get better I'll go get fit."

Equally though, I've had a driver fitting when the fitter basically said to go away and sort out my technique, then come back. A bit extreme, but I was hitting down 8 degrees on a driver, which meant he'd have had to fit me into a 23 degree club to have any hope of loft conditions! I went away, returned with a better AoA and he sorted out the shaft, meaning my driver now works a treat. 

My point is, I think there's a balance. You have to have a typical pattern that a good fitter can work with. Ultimately though, there's no substitute for better technique, and I'll happily work on something for the price of range balls for a month rather than dropping £300 on a new driver every other year. 

[Buckeyebowman]

16 hours ago, b101 said:

Equally though, I've had a driver fitting when the fitter basically said to go away and sort out my technique, then come back. A bit extreme, but I was hitting down 8 degrees on a driver, which meant he'd have had to fit me into a 23 degree club to have any hope of loft conditions! I went away, returned with a better AoA and he sorted out the shaft, meaning my driver now works a treat. 

My point is, I think there's a balance. You have to have a typical pattern that a good fitter can work with. Ultimately though, there's no substitute for better technique, and I'll happily work on something for the price of range balls for a month rather than dropping £300 on a new driver every other year. 

That's kind of my point. You went for a fitting and the fitter told you the truth. Now you KNOW that's it's an issue with your swing instead of just assuming that it is.

If I were you I'd trust this guy with my life! An unscrupulous merchant might have simply sold you a driver just to make the sale. He didn't do that. I'd go to him as long as he's around!

[Lihu]

35 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

That's kind of my point. You went for a fitting and the fitter told you the truth. Now you KNOW that's it's an issue with your swing instead of just assuming that it is.

If I were you I'd trust this guy with my life! An unscrupulous merchant might have simply sold you a driver just to make the sale. He didn't do that. I'd go to him as long as he's around!

Most (if not all) of the salesmen in my area are like that. It's the customers that don't listen to them because they think the latest technology is going to shave off 10 strokes from their games. . .

[Mop Bucket]

I got my MP68's when I was pretty young and at the time, it was definitely a bit too much club for me to handle. There was an adjustment period but I in the long run it ultimately helped my game. Looking back I feel that the transition was a good one even if my game took a hit in the adjustment period.

I think it really just comes down to preference and knowing exactly what you want out of a new club. Fitters are there for a reason and clubs can definitely improve someone's game, especially if they're currently playing with the wrong ones. But in the big picture of things, technique will always be the most important thing. A good craftsman won't blame his tools.