What Gives?!? - Game Improving, Handicap Getting Worse

[stealthhwk]

2 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I've had periods of funny scoring while improving. A lot of it was taking on more risk and finding trouble I couldn't previously get in to. Improved ball striking for amateurs still comes with inconsistency and often with perception sneaking in to confuse us. I often have days I drive the ball really well, driving is the weakest part of the game for me, and manage to score worse than usual. I score the best when I play Groundhog Day golf because I am accustomed to those positions on the course.

This is much more of what Im getting at! I think Im making new mistakes that Im just not seeing and I need some places to look for them so I can weed them out of my game. Playing from dif spots than Im accustomed to have def led to some problems for me. A good example is the water on number four at my home course. Its a par five with 259 to the water off the tee. Never had the length before to worry about it but a few months ago with a slight tail wind and some dry hard fairway put my tee shot in the water with a hybrid. After not getting it close again over the next four rounds, called it a fluke so hit the 3 wood off the tee next two rounds. Both laser straight and into the drink!

[RandallT]

Not sure you have all your data from years past, but as you know, the handicap only includes your best 10 or 20. It could be that your average score is getting better, but you are having fewer "blowup" rounds.  If you old swing was less consistent, but you could be somewhat streaky or "in a groove" on good days, it's entirely possible that your handicap hasn't budged much.

The key is whether or not your top 10 rounds of the last 20 have improved. 

I suffer from a bit of what you're talking about. With lessons, I feel like I know a TON more about my swing, I feel more controlled on the course- but scores don't show it. I scratch my head wondering how I shot similar scores when I just started out with the game again after many, many years off. I look back and think that I had no idea what I was doing with that swing!

I posted something similar to what you are saying here on TST once: that my swing was improving and that I was better- but my scores don't show it. I sorta got mocked a bit by those who say score is the ultimate measure (I get that).

But there's something inside that tells me I'm way better than I used to be, but I still shoot around bogey golf, maybe a few better on a good day. Scoring well is hard, and my nGIR is improving, I think. So it feels like I'm better, that's for sure.

[70sSanO]

I haven't been here very long, but my advice... make the drive.  Not every week, but drive those 40 miles and play one of those easier courses and compare your game today with the last time you played there.  I would bet you will have a different appreciation for your improvement.

35 years ago we lived fairly close to a county course that had an 18 hole course and also a 9 hole par 34.  Whenever I was really struggling I'd head out to that 9 hole and it would really help.  Nothing like wide flat fairways with reachable greens and little trouble to re-establish a positive outlook on the game.

FWIW... I'm about 50 miles away from that course today, but I have made the trek on occasion.

John

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

This is much more of what Im getting at! I think Im making new mistakes that Im just not seeing and I need some places to look for them so I can weed them out of my game. Playing from dif spots than Im accustomed to have def led to some problems for me. A good example is the water on number four at my home course. Its a par five with 259 to the water off the tee. Never had the length before to worry about it but a few months ago with a slight tail wind and some dry hard fairway put my tee shot in the water with a hybrid. After not getting it close again over the next four rounds, called it a fluke so hit the 3 wood off the tee next two rounds. Both laser straight and into the drink!

We are close to the same handicap, I had a similar problem early last year.  My ball striking was better but my scores didn't reflect it.  My problem was around the green, I wasn't chipping and pitching well and leaving myself far from the hole which resulted in a lot of 3 putts and a few 4 putts.  If your GIR are low then that means you're putting more pressure on your short game, track the number of chips and pitches as well as putts.  

72 is par on most courses so at our handicap we expect to be playing bogey golf or better which means we should be around 90.  One blow up hole and a few 3 putts sprinkled on the front and back can add up quick.  Also look at your Par 3's, a double bogey on those doesn't stand out as much as they do on par 4 and 5's.   

Lastly look at how your handicap is being calculated.  It could be good rounds are falling off and being replaced with higher scores.  

[Dave2512]

One thing I remember about being a 20 handicap was my scores were erratic. Heck I am erratic now my last twenty have a difference of 13 strokes from best to worst and 7 strokes difference in the ten best. It wouldn't be odd for me to shoot 85 twice in a weekend and 76 a couple rounds later. On paper it looks different but from a ball striking perspective other than a penalty or two and some bad bounces how I played would be identical.

[stealthhwk]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

We are close to the same handicap, I had a similar problem early last year.  My ball striking was better but my scores didn't reflect it.  My problem was around the green, I wasn't chipping and pitching well and leaving myself far from the hole which resulted in a lot of 3 putts and a few 4 putts.  If your GIR are low then that means you're putting more pressure on your short game, track the number of chips and pitches as well as putts.  

72 is par on most courses so at our handicap we expect to be playing bogey golf or better which means we should be around 90.  One blow up hole and a few 3 putts sprinkled on the front and back can add up quick.  Also look at your Par 3's, a double bogey on those doesn't stand out as much as they do on par 4 and 5's.   

Lastly look at how your handicap is being calculated.  It could be good rounds are falling off and being replaced with higher scores.  

Par threes are kicking my butt like nobodys business. Figured that one out four rounds ago and have been really focused on them as of late. Good news is Im starting to shave some strokes there. Good tip

[Dave2512]

8 minutes ago, stealthhwk said:

Par threes are kicking my butt like nobodys business. Figured that one out four rounds ago and have been really focused on them as of late. Good news is Im starting to shave some strokes there. Good tip

Par 3's kick everyone's butt especially amateurs. Par on those is typically dependent on hitting GIR. As a 20 handicap you hit what 1-3 GIR a round. To play the par 3's well all your GIR have to come on just the 3's or you have to scramble for par. To give you a comparison it doesn't get much better as you trend down. I average about 7-8 GIR and scramble at 25-30%. That's been pretty steady in my 3.5 years as a single digit handicap. Some days are certainly worse than that.

[stealthhwk]

34 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Par 3's kick everyone's butt especially amateurs. Par on those is typically dependent on hitting GIR. As a 20 handicap you hit what 1-3 GIR a round. To play the par 3's well all your GIR have to come on just the 3's or you have to scramble for par. To give you a comparison it doesn't get much better as you trend down. I average about 7-8 GIR and scramble at 25-30%. That's been pretty steady in my 3.5 years as a single digit handicap. Some days are certainly worse than that.

Idk if thats encouraging or discouraging...doesnt sound like much to look forward too. LOL. Par threes I usually hit off the tee, but every single time I land the par three green, its far away from the cup so I always three putt. I usually pray I miss, then chip, putt, par and save one to two strokes with the putter.

[Rainmaker]

I never really kept a handicap but, when I first started I was what I liked to call a "Max Capper" . .which means your handicap is so high you can't even really keep score or play by all the rules.  As I progressed towards breaking 100, I made a lot of improvements that didn't really show up on the course.  I'd have great range sessions and lessons and I'd see actual improvement on the course in terms of my shots but my score didn't really move that much.  I just had prettier misses.  More good shots.  Less horrible bad shots, etc.   

Even now, I'm much, much improved from where I started.  I hit it so much worse on the course than I do on the range.  I'm starting to think of golf as 2 games . .my practice game and my on-the-course game.  My practice game is like ammo for my on-the-course game.  I might not do everything I'm doing in practice on the course - but all the practice makes me better on the course ..if I can just let go mentally and not try to work on my swing while I'm playing.  Until I could break 90 or so, I was always pretty much working on my swing while playing.  I probably could've stopped that sooner but I just didn't realize it sooner, lol. 

 

 

[Lihu]

9 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

My frustration is about to go sky high even by golf standards! My ball striking and distance are better than ever before and yet my score and my handicap are rising quickly. Golf is a game of misses, well, even my misses are better. Used to hit it ob and hit houses. Now its usually 5-10 yards into the trees or rough. Used to hit it in the water at every opportunity. Now only hit it in the water half of the time. Used to take six to eight swings to escape a bunker, now it takes one or two. Used to three and four putt every hole, now its one or two and Im done. Used to have one sided short game. Now I can hit flops, bump and run and several home grown short game shots.  I used to hit 7 iron 140, now it goes 160. My biggest improvements have come in the last 18 months and instead of my handicap coming down its gone up nearly a whole point and a half. After all this improvement, I feel like I should be shooting high 80s NOT the same 96-105s I was shooting three years ago. I have truly improved by leaps and bounds. If working that hard, and improving that much is gonna get me the same crappy scores Ive always had, IM DONE!!! Its just the most assanigned thing Ive ever ****** heard! Maybe it really is time for a new hobby. Totally ridiculous!

This is golf, you get better and your scores get worse. What's to understand?

Seriously, you are probably just adjusting to your new distances. I go through this every time I make a swing change for the better or a club change or whatever. It takes time for things to settle in and for your game strategy to adjust to your better ball striking. It happens.

[Buckeyebowman]

4 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

Par 3's kick everyone's butt especially amateurs. Par on those is typically dependent on hitting GIR. As a 20 handicap you hit what 1-3 GIR a round. To play the par 3's well all your GIR have to come on just the 3's or you have to scramble for par. To give you a comparison it doesn't get much better as you trend down. I average about 7-8 GIR and scramble at 25-30%. That's been pretty steady in my 3.5 years as a single digit handicap. Some days are certainly worse than that.

True that! Most pros don't really look to score on par 3's. They're happy to take their 3 and move on!

I have to agree with some of the earlier posters. Something is amiss here. Of course, it's not unheard of for a player's ball striking to improve, but not their scoring. You have to learn how to swing the club better, and you have to learn how to score better.

I once saw a video by Hank Haney where he talked only about scoring, not swing instruction. He said there were 3 main things you have to do to improve scoring.

#1. Eliminate "penalty" shots. By penalty shots he meant any shot where you could not approach the green. Might be OB, but usually isn't. If you have to chip out sideways, what's the difference? Besides, for most of the golf I've played, most guys don't do "stroke and distance" unless they're absolute certain from the tee, that the ball is OB. Then they just tee up another one. Usually you ride or walk down there, discover your ball is OB, and just take the stroke penalty since another foursome is already standing on the tee. I know this is not Rules of Golf "gospel", but most guys try to keep play moving.

So, let's say your first effort at a punch out isn't fully successful. Maybe you can knock it a little way up the fairway, but you still can't approach the green. See how the strokes start to add up?

#2. Eliminate "2 chips". When your ball striking improves a little, you might be tempted to go after some chancier shots. Haney maintained that trying to get too cute with a chip, or a pitch, and dumping it short or skulling it long costs you strokes that you don't need to spend. Just get it on the green somewhere, so that you can putt.

#3 Eliminate 3 putts. Obviously easier said than done! Because it's a 2 part process. You must become a better lag putter and a better short putter! What has been the standard advice on long, lag putts? Get the ball in a 3 foot radius of the hole, How many times does that happen? And let's say you do that. How good are you at 3 foot putts? I've seen way too many guys leave lag putts 10 feet short and off to one side. And if they luck out and get it to about 3 feet, they shake like a leaf and make a horrible stab at it.

Overall, I think yours is a game "in flux". Some things are getting better while others aren't. I was happy to hear that you found a ball you like. Hitting a ball that fits you, and doesn't feel like a rock or a marshmallow and go nowhere, builds confidence. I'd say stick with it, and keep working to leave the ball in the short grass. I used to have a slice that would cross 2 fairways! It can be done.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Buckeyebowman

[ZappyAd]

I think sometimes three off the tee can leave you in a better place than playing your 'better' ball 5 yards into the trees.  A scuffed chip, maybe a bounce off a tree and you can easily end up at three much further back on the fairway, or attempting a miracle recovery shot that gets you into more trouble closer to the green.  I think this is especially true the higher the player's handicap - it seems to me that better players get out of trouble better even when they get into it less.

If you were going OB many times during a round then it might just have been putting an artificial ceiling on your score and getting you back into play, whereas now that you are improving you have to actually hit the ball (possibly multiple times) to get to the same place.  So you might need to improve another aspect of your game (recovery chipping, course management) before you actually reap the rewards overall in your score.

[boogielicious]

16 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

Id kill for an easier course!! Dfw has tons of courses but few for the weekend warrior. From what I understand the average course for an amateur is around 113 slope. All the courses near me NOW are between 117 and 129. Ive moved 40 miles away from the easy courses I used to play. 

And I do have a go to bump and run shot around the greens. I suspect some recent golf ball testing has probably had a very negative effect on that part of my game over the last three months. Ball testing was completed yesterday with shocking results so Ive found my ball and Im sticking to it til they stop making it or til I outgrow it which hopefully wont be anytime soon. My first putts are usually close but it all depends on the length of the approach. Anything outside of 115 and Im not gonna be close

Be careful what you wish for. Easier courses do not necessarily help your HC. If you score 90 and an easy course and a 93 at a hard course, the 93 may give you a better result. As a higher HC player, you are going to make the same kind of misses on both courses. So the lower rated course doesn't really make your job any easier.

Read LSW. You will get an idea on what to work on and how to game plan. Then, as others have said, follow the simple rules to keeping your scores down like never follow a bad shot with a hero shot, etc. 

[stealthhwk]

6 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

True that! Most pros don't really look to score on par 3's. They're happy to take their 3 and move on!

I have to agree with some of the earlier posters. Something is amiss here. Of course, it's not unheard of for a player's ball striking to improve, but not their scoring. You have to learn how to swing the club better, and you have to learn how to score better.

I once saw a video by Hank Haney where he talked only about scoring, not swing instruction. He said there were 3 main things you have to do to improve scoring.

#1. Eliminate "penalty" shots. By penalty shots he meant any shot where you could not approach the green. Might be OB, but usually isn't. If you have to chip out sideways, what's the difference? Besides, for most of the golf I've played, most guys don't do "stroke and distance" unless they're absolute certain from the tee, that the ball is OB. Then they just tee up another one. Usually you ride or walk down there, discover your ball is OB, and just take the stroke penalty since another foursome is already standing on the tee. I know this is not Rules of Golf "gospel", but most guys try to keep play moving.

So, let's say your first effort at a punch out isn't fully successful. Maybe you can knock it a little way up the fairway, but you still can't approach the green. See how the strokes start to add up?

#2. Eliminate "2 chips". When your ball striking improves a little, you might be tempted to go after some chancier shots. Haney maintained that trying to get too cute with a chip, or a pitch, and dumping it short or skulling it long costs you strokes that you don't need to spend. Just get it on the green somewhere, so that you can putt.

#3 Eliminate 3 putts. Obviously easier said than done! Because it's a 2 part process. You must become a better lag putter and a better short putter! What has been the standard advice on long, lag putts? Get the ball in a 3 foot radius of the hole, How many times does that happen? And let's say you do that. How good are you at 3 foot putts? I've seen way too many guys leave lag putts 10 feet short and off to one side. And if they luck out and get it to about 3 feet, they shake like a leaf and make a horrible stab at it.

Overall, I think yours is a game "in flux". Some things are getting better while others aren't. I was happy to hear that you found a ball you like. Hitting a ball that fits you, and doesn't feel like a rock or a marshmallow and go nowhere, builds confidence. I'd say stick with it, and keep working to leave the ball in the short grass. I used to have a slice that would cross 2 fairways! It can be done.

Thanks for the tips and encouragement! You have pointed out a good one that I havnt thought about! Im not taking as many penalties hitting it ob, but Im punching out a lot. My new course has tree lined fairways so first cut of rough is under trees preventing me from advancing ball towards the green. This is happening five or six times a round. Thats giving up a lot of strokes. Ive just been so thrilled about keeping it on the course that I became completely oblivious to other things that can cost strokes. Ive also wound up duffing a few chips resulting in the double chip you mentioned! This has got to be the problem! You have just solved the mystery and now I feel kind of silly. Thanks for that!! Think Ill tweak my startegy a bit to see if I can avoid the trees more and im gonna just slow down a bit around the greens. Take my preshot routine and as I read in lsw last night, make SURE to get my first chip on the green. Thank you!!!! :)

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

Thanks for the tips and encouragement! You have pointed out a good one that I havnt thought about! Im not taking as many penalties hitting it ob, but Im punching out a lot. My new course has tree lined fairways so first cut of rough is under trees preventing me from advancing ball towards the green. This is happening five or six times a round. Thats giving up a lot of strokes. Ive just been so thrilled about keeping it on the course that I became completely oblivious to other things that can cost strokes. Ive also wound up duffing a few chips resulting in the double chip you mentioned! This has got to be the problem! You have just solved the mystery and now I feel kind of silly. Thanks for that!! Think Ill tweak my startegy a bit to see if I can avoid the trees more and im gonna just slow down a bit around the greens. Take my preshot routine and as I read in lsw last night, make SURE to get my first chip on the green. Thank you!!!! :)

Try tracking your shots better.

It just doesn't seem likely that your chips became worse when your ball striking improved?

Also, punching out of trees is not that costly. You are thinking that you can shoot in the 80s but instead shoot 100s because of losing 5 strokes from punching out of trees? 

[stealthhwk]

25 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Try tracking your shots better.

It just doesn't seem likely that your chips became worse when your ball striking improved?

Also, punching out of trees is not that costly. You are thinking that you can shoot in the 80s but instead shoot 100s because of losing 5 strokes from punching out of trees? 

Your half right on the chips. They havnt gotten worse. Ive rushed my chips a bit sometimes skipping a preshot routine and really oreparing for the shot at hand. Ive also been making rookie mistakes as in grabbing the wrong wedge, or two rounds ago, when I called a penalty on myself after walking into my ball with a wedge which inadvertantly struck the ball. And while I agree punching out doesnt cost that many strokes once or twice a round, doing it five or six times in a round is huge! Esp when you consider that I often screw up one of those punch outs which adds at least another stroke.

[b101]

Whilst there may not be an 'easier' course, have you tried playing off the front tees? Additionally, I'd just suggest what others have, keep working on the swing and it will come as you ingrain the good habits. I'm still working on the driver and putting and whilst you can't really tell how many shots they're shaving, I don't often have to reload off the tee any more and the three putts are becoming rarer. I know I'm improving, but it takes a lot to save those shots.

You will get there, just keep practising specifically and keep plugging away 

Edited April 7, 2016 by b101

[stealthhwk]

19 minutes ago, b101 said:

Whilst there may not be an 'easier' course, have you tried playing off the front tees? Additionally, I'd just suggest what others have, keep working on the swing and it will come as you ingrain the good habits. I'm still working on the driver and putting and whilst you can't really tell how many shots they're shaving, I don't often have to reload off the tee any more and the three putts are becoming rarer. I know I'm improving, but it takes a lot to save those shots.

You will get there, just keep practising specifically and keep plugging away 

Only tees in front of me are the ones for the ladies and Im pretty sure that would be frowned upon by the golfing public as Im a lot of things...but a lady, isnt one of them. :)