Jordan Spieth's Slow Play

[tdiii]

4 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

 

What about at the end?  I thought I remembered that they were either on or off the 17 green before Matsuyama and Langer putted out on 18.  Does falling two holes behind 7 holes prior really matter if you're able to catch back up before the end?

(For events that I've played in, the answer to that question is no.  You either finish within 13/14 minutes of the group ahead of you or you finish within the time par listed on the card (if you're a lead group or the groups in front of you are blazing fast))

Remember that TV doesn't necessarily broadcast in real time.  Matsuyama and the German rain delay finished 18 before Spieth finished 17.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

What about at the end?  I thought I remembered that they were either on or off the 17 green before Matsuyama and Langer putted out on 18.  Does falling two holes behind 7 holes prior really matter if you're able to catch back up before the end?

a) That's not really catching up. They finished more than 10 minutes behind the group in front.

b) Yes, it still matters.

Jordan is a slow player even when judged against other slow players (which is most PGA Tour players).

[pumaAttack]

7 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

That's it! We get Bolt to go to event and run along side these guys saying, "Hurry up Slow Pokes!"

I don't think I want to see Phil trying to keep up with Bolt....

[skydog]

As a moderate fan of Jordan's the slow play drives me crazy (I like to play rounds in under 3 hours) and also has me somewhat concerned about his future. Players typically only get slower and even more fidgety with age as scar tissue and mental blockage increases (think Sergio milking the club). I think it's an issue Jordan has to address now or it's probably only going to get worse.

As was mentioned in another thread... Day probably deserves to get almost as much flack as Jordan for his slow play. Although I would say Jordan is definitely worse at this point.

[No Mulligans]

I think Speith's pace is poor etiquette and maybe unfair to the other competitors.  It would be frustrating to play with someone that takes that much time over their shots and could frustrate and throw the others players out of their rhythm. 

I've been a fan of Jordan's but his pace of play is a turn off.  I hope they start to penalize the slow players with strokes.

Is Jordan the slowest of all?

[tdiii]

2 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

I think Speith's pace is poor etiquette and maybe unfair to the other competitors.  It would be frustrating to play with someone that takes that much time over their shots and could frustrate and throw the others players out of their rhythm. 

I've been a fan of Jordan's but his pace of play is a turn off.  I hope they start to penalize the slow players with strokes.

Is Jordan the slowest of all?

This ^^^

I thought his slow play threw McIlroy off his game Saturday.  Total speculation on my point, I know, and, even if it did, McIlroy needs to overcome that type of distraction.  But I agree with the larger point that it is unfair to playing partners and the rest of the field. 

[pumaAttack]

10 minutes ago, tdiii said:

This ^^^

I thought his slow play threw McIlroy off his game Saturday.  Total speculation on my point, I know, and, even if it did, McIlroy needs to overcome that type of distraction.  But I agree with the larger point that it is unfair to playing partners and the rest of the field. 

You could see Rory just hanging out waiting for Jordan to hit a few shots.  That has to get to you, but yes, the #3 player in the world should not be affected by that distraction.

[Howling Coyote]

On April 10, 2016 at 4:29 AM, boogielicious said:

I don't want to fry Jordan. I am just stating that if any two members on this site played 18 in 4:30, they would be called very slow. Each pair at the Masters took about this long. That is twice as slow as it should be. How can we combat slow play if the best players in the world are slower than us? A foursome is expected to play 18 in 4:30 or less at most courses.

I was just about to say.. I played on a long course once --18 holes, par 72 and it took about 4:30 to finish, but we were a foursome and the long pole in the tent was the group in front of us.

[Schrodinger]

Sunday at hole number two (par five), Jordan Spieth used more than three minutes (!!) to prepare and read his putt before hitting the ball ........

[ChrisP]

3 hours ago, tdiii said:

This ^^^

I thought his slow play threw McIlroy off his game Saturday.  Total speculation on my point, I know, and, even if it did, McIlroy needs to overcome that type of distraction.  But I agree with the larger point that it is unfair to playing partners and the rest of the field. 

They actually asked Rory about that and he said he understood why Jordan was taking his time and even he had to back off a lot of shots. The wind was giving them a hard time judging things.

I think Jordan has a little bit of Keegan Bradley and Kevin Na in him in that he's very meticulous and nervy with everything. That's just the way he is. You can't really change the way someone's brain functions. It's much worse in tough conditions. I've seen Jordan play quickly at times when conditions are easy and the pressure isn't on as much, but when they're difficult and the pressure's cranked up, he can be a bit of a headcase....I think he's great for the game....I don't really like when he plays slow at all....but he is who he is. I think as he gets older, he'll get better, but he's still young and still nervous more often than not.

[CR McDivot]

6 hours ago, ChrisP said:

...I think as he gets older, he'll get better, but he's still young and still nervous more often than not.

Nervous?

Spieth is a headcase - way over the top analytical. No way can this type handle pressure, always leads to indecision and fatal flaws in execution.

Spieth does not seem to enjoy his game. Seems like his game is all technical. He is slow because he is indecisive and unsure of not only the situation but his ability to adjust.

Feel IS real (when it comes to the mental game)! If you are confident in your game you will be ready and able to adjust without over analyzing - something Jordan needs to learn in order to achieve the potential he obviously has.

[Golfingdad]

I didn't realize I had saved it but I still have Sunday's final round on the DVR so I went back and checked a couple of things just for kicks.  Here are the last several groups on Sunday:

Pairing                                       Tee Time          Finish            Round

McIlroy/Berger                             10:55              3:10                4:15

Snedeker/Kjeldsen                       11:05            (they didn't show them finish)

Willed/Westwood                         11:15              3:30               4:15

Day/Johnson                                11:25              3:46               4:21

Langer/Matsuyama                      11:35              3:58               4:23

Spieth/Kaufman                             11:45            4:10               4:25

Note that the gaps between the last 4 groups finishing were :16, :12, and :12.  I'm going to say that people are falsely pointing at Spieth (and Day a few weeks ago) as being slower than the rest of them, simply because the broadcast happens to show them the whole time.  For many of the other players who are not superstars and are not in the lead, they cut to them when they're about to hit so we don't see as much of the whole process.

They're all slow, and Spieth not much more than any of the rest of them.

 

[pumaAttack]

19 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I didn't realize I had saved it but I still have Sunday's final round on the DVR so I went back and checked a couple of things just for kicks.  Here are the last several groups on Sunday:

Pairing                                       Tee Time          Finish            Round

McIlroy/Berger                             10:55              3:10                4:15

Snedeker/Kjeldsen                       11:05            (they didn't show them finish)

Willed/Westwood                         11:15              3:30               4:15

Day/Johnson                                11:25              3:46               4:21

Langer/Matsuyama                      11:35              3:58               4:23

Spieth/Kaufman                             11:45            4:10               4:25

Note that the gaps between the last 4 groups finishing were :16, :12, and :12.  I'm going to say that people are falsely pointing at Spieth (and Day a few weeks ago) as being slower than the rest of them, simply because the broadcast happens to show them the whole time.  For many of the other players who are not superstars and are not in the lead, they cut to them when they're about to hit so we don't see as much of the whole process.

They're all slow, and Spieth not much more than any of the rest of them.

 

The problem with this data is that CBS rarely shows anything live.  The ending times for the other groups could easily be 5 minutes off. 

Watching the live feeds on Amen Corner or the Featured groups, you would see a shot live and then see the CBS "cut" of the shot minutes after.

[Golfingdad]

15 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

The problem with this data is that CBS rarely shows anything live.  The ending times for the other groups could easily be 5 minutes off. 

Watching the live feeds on Amen Corner or the Featured groups, you would see a shot live and then see the CBS "cut" of the shot minutes after.

That's not really true.  When they don't show something live they point it out.  For example, they actually showed Matsuyama hole out at 4:00, but they said "a moment ago" when they showed it, which is why I estimated it back to 3:58 ... Back to when Spieth was being shown teeing off on 18.

But a few minutes here or there is nothing anyway. They're all pretty close.

[pumaAttack]

2 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

That's not really true.  When they don't show something live they point it out.  For example, they actually showed Matsuyama hole out at 4:00, but they said "a moment ago" when they showed it, which is why I estimated it back to 3:58 ... Back to when Spieth was being shown teeing off on 18.

But a few minutes here or there is nothing anyway. They're all pretty close.

I watched A LOT of dual coverage.  You would be amazed how few times they admit to something not being live.  They want you to think every shot it shown live and selectively say "a moment ago."

[Scotsclaff]

1 hour ago, pumaAttack said:

I watched A LOT of dual coverage.  You would be amazed how few times they admit to something not being live.  They want you to think every shot it shown live and selectively say "a moment ago."

Correct.

The TV coverage is atrocious,as I keep saying.

If the camera gets to the player before his pre-shot routine then only can you suss out how slow or quick a player he really is.I love to watch golf when I'm not working,and I watch a lot. Spieth,Day Dubuisson and Bradley should be on the clock from the first tee.

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, pumaAttack said:

I don't think I want to see Phil trying to keep up with Bolt....

Not just Phil, how about Aphibarnrat.....

[Lazarus]

It's probably not helped by the fact they film the leaders a lot more exclusively on the live feed. I barely saw Langer hit a ball on Sunday.

I'm a bit torn between the annoying jumping around from one putt going in to another going in every 10 seconds, and the desire to see how the best players strategise a shot. TV wants the drama and pressure of Sunday at the top.  If they miked up Jordan and Streller so we could get inside the deliberations it may be more interesting (or agonising if he was just faffing around). I don't notice it especially on tv and Spieth generally seems to be trying to get the right picture and making the best decision.