Can you really improve more than just a few strokes given enough time and proper practice?

[Golfingdad]

17 hours ago, saevel25 said:

That is a load of BS. I was playing golf for 10 years at a 12-16 handicap. After getting lessons from Erik I've dropped to a 5  handicap. I see potential to get to scratch within the next year or so.

I am almost a mirror image here.  Started playing for real in high school/college and would guess I was in the vicinity of a 15.  On my own, got to around a 10, and was pretty much in the 10-12 vicinity from the mid '90s and up until 2012. Then I joined TST, met Mike and Erik and Dave, and started Evolvr.  Have improved every year since then and "expect" to continue improving, with the ultimate goal of getting to or near scratch.  Not expecting it in a year, but plan on continuing to work and improve at some increment.

So, in answer to the title question ... Yes.

[phan52]

Most of us don't have the time to put in to have continuous improvement but I always play better when I have had the chance to get some range time and get a tune up from the pro so, for me, it kind of comes and goes.

We have a guy at our club who has been playing golf his whole life. He's a decent athlete and had been around a 9-10 handicap for most of his life with minimal practice or instruction. When he turned 50, he was independently wealthy at the time so he took that summer to hone his game. Working with the pro and hitting the range 4-5 days a week, he got down to scratch and actually won the Club Championship. He had been a solid player ever since  and is one of the better senior players in the Philly area.

[Psyber]

37 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Depends on the person, the type of motivation, support structure and how they were brought up. You certainly have people with all the ability in the world, who think they are entitled, and they don't go anywhere. 

I do not believe that an aggressive pheromone or gene is linked to success. I wouldn't link aggressiveness with competitiveness.

 

I think there is a pretty strong link between aggressiveness and competitiveness. I don't think it necessarily makes you a better golfer but skill being equal the more competitive person may do better in competition through sheer willpower and self belief. 

[nevets88]

Imho, I think w/golf, you can be motivated as you possibly can be, if you don't siphon some of that motivation to go about it smartly, it'll be tougher. There are lots of motivated golfers at the range I see carrying two large buckets of balls to their stalls, then mindlessly swinging away, no slow, simple, specific, short. No changing the picture. No video. 

[DaveP043]

I  played the first 20 years or so without any real instruction, save for some tips from a buddy when I was in college.  I played a lot, spent some relatively unguided time on the range occasionally, and played to around a 15.  I took my only lesson shortly after joining my current club, and through somewhat more guided practice (not really a lot of practice), and lots of playing, went down to around 8 over the next 4 years or so, and stayed at that level for the next 10 years.  Maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I started making time to practice at least once a week, and play an additional weekday evening 9 most weeks.  I wasn't trying to change things, but more to reinforce tempo, consistent set up, and the same swing keys I took away from that long-ago lesson.  In that time, I've come down to a 5 handicap, occasionally flirting with 4.  I think that if I was to take more lessons (from a competent instructor, it should go with saying) and spent additional practice time, I could go lower, but I'm pretty sure I'm not dedicated enough to go to that extra effort.  

[kpaulhus]

My golfing career was stable in the mid to upper 90's for about 4 years. I was only playing a few times a month and just smashing balls at the range with no real intent. I then tried to change my ball flight from a slice to a draw and found the sand trap in 2007. I went from barely breaking 95 to a 13 handicap for a few years then with a lot more knowledge and understanding of ball flight and whatnot am now a 7-8 index. Still I wonder how I got to where I am and am constantly trying to get better. 

My goal this year is to get to a 4, so I know it is possible with the right instruction and dedication to improving. 

[mvmac]

4 hours ago, Lihu said:

What drives this? Do some people naturally have more potential to be more determined than others?

I think people are just interested in what they're interested in. If they care enough they'll put in the work.

A lot of people want to get better at golf but few actually do what is needed to improve. I think the bigger issues than determination are setting aside some time to practice (5 mins everyday), getting educated on HOW to practice and sticking with it. 

[Lihu]

23 minutes ago, mvmac said:

I think people are just interested in what they're interested in. If they care enough they'll put in the work.

A lot of people want to get better at golf but few actually do what is needed to improve. I think the bigger issues than determination are setting aside some time to practice (5 mins everyday), getting educated on HOW to practice and sticking with it. 

This 5 minutes per day has been incredibly invaluable.

I'm also thinking about making birdie putts on the course and chips that put you in a position to make an up and down. I wonder if this total concentration is related to a physiological state? Some days you have it and some days you feel like the greens are made of Teflon. In general, how does one maintain this peak performance every round? It seems like better players have more of something?

For instance, I know some people who have really nice swings, but they score terrible. I hear comments like if so and so got better at putting (and short game in general) we'd all be in trouble. One time, I was partnered with two people who were playing each other for a pretty decent amount of money and one of them had a terrible swing, but when he got close enough he could swing all different ways and still "pitch/chip" near the hole. The other player had a really decent swing, and consistently hit his tee shots 20-30 yards past his opponent, but never got closer than his friend on his 3rd shot/putt. The reason was that his friend got so close on his 3rd.  They'd been playing together that way for many years and have nearly the same handicaps. I just think the "bad" swing player has something extra in his genetics that allows him to get consistently so close. Also, it's not like he missed all the greens, he'd get those sometimes as well and have birdie opportunities.

I kept thinking that if the player with the better swing had that something his friend had he could be a scratch or better player, or something?

[No Mulligans]

Some folks are just more talented at getting good at golf for a myriad of reasons.

Some folks might have a potential to get to a 10HI others potential might be scratch.  If you are at or near your potential then there is little or no room for improvement.  And as you age you can expect your potential to go down also.  So, to answer the question, some have room for improvement, some don't.

However, I believe the vast majority have room for improvement.

[Lihu]

16 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Some folks are just more talented at getting good at golf for a myriad of reasons.

Some folks might have a potential to get to a 10HI others potential might be scratch.  If you are at or near your potential then there is little or no room for improvement.  And as you age you can expect your potential to go down also.  So, to answer the question, some have room for improvement, some don't.

However, I believe the vast majority have room for improvement.

Yeah, that's more or less in line with most of the responses in this thread.

Thanks, everyone. I feel a little bit uplifted, not so much for myself, but more for my kids.

[MacDutch]

Most people (as in lets  say 70-80% I guess) don't get better after a couple of years. This is true, but there is a why. 

They don't practice and they only play at max once a week with others who also don't practice. They play with there peers, not getting better.

But if you are competitive, you start working on weak parts of your game, you start playing a lot more, meet other golfers better then you to learn from. So the learning process could go on for a lot more then a couple of years.

And then, when this diminishing thing kicks in, you seek help from Eric and Evolvr or something.

As for me, I started playing at the age of 52 and played something like 150 rounds every year. Almost no lessons, almost no drivingrange or other trainingfacilities. After 3 months hcp 36, then 27 after a year, 17 after two, 14 after three, 11.4 after four, 9.7 after 5 and 8.5 after 6. I played a lot with better players, including (over the years) maybe 50 rounds with a teaching pro.

Wil I get better this 7th year? Yes, because when it's  not happening the way it did the last 6 years, I will seek other ways to get better.

[RH31]

Can you really improve more than just a few strokes given enough time and proper practice?     

Obviously, physical and concentrating abilities are going to be the biggest factors in this equation. We are not all equal and sometimes it's not just a matter of how much effort you put into it.

A huge factor (IMO) in determining how good you can be is how far off you get trying to get there.

Assuming a player gets the necessary instruction, if he practices and plays what he is not taught, or what is not proper, he makes it harder to improve because he is ingraining wrong techniques in his muscle/mind memory. So, the longer a player scrapes it around with say "taking the club to far inside", the harder it is going to be to get the club to travel on the right path.

To be clear, I'm talking about repetitions, not number of years. I've had 5 year stretches when I've played 500 rounds and 5 year stretches when I played 50 rounds.

 

I'd be interested to know what the teaching Pro's think, without derailing this thread. At what point is your swing, more or less your swing?

[Lihu]

29 minutes ago, RH31 said:

I'd be interested to know what the teaching Pro's think, without derailing this thread. At what point is your swing, more or less your swing?

This is a great question. I wonder if it's implied or assumed by the 2 year mark? Maybe for most people the average time to get your swing is 2 years?

[nevets88]

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

I'd be interested to know what the teaching Pro's think, without derailing this thread. At what point is your swing, more or less your swing?

Imho, this is a complicated question. Some people have a strong sense of aesthetics and want the swing to look a certain way, some are results oriented and don't care, as long as they score. Instructors teach differently, some instructors, their students have a certain look to them. If you've lost all your hangups regarding how you look, think functional, aren't trying to hit positions, not contriving your swing, working with your body type rather than against, that's as your swing as your swing is going to get.

Take a look at the tennis serve. This is the most individual move in the game. Serves look different, High toss, low toss, where they face when setting up, super arched back, not so arched. Look at John McEnroe serve, Stefan Edberg and then look at Roger Federer serve. Totally different motions. Imho, if your golf swing is as individual as the tennis serve, that's your swing.