Jump to content
IGNORED

Reading Greens


Note: This thread is 2849 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

  • Administrator
8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But per your posts, I'm clearly so ignorant I expect AimPoint is too far over my head to tackle at this stage. I probably have to become a much better golfer before I can properly understand these complex concepts.

Nope. We teach it to children. You're just learning a far-from-good way first.

8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

For me, the reference at the hole helps me extrapolate back to the initial ball position in steps. It's not important to me that you think it's correct. It's simply a visual aid for the kind of mental picture per the images below for the section around the hole; which relates to the prior section, which relates to the section before that, which relates to my initial ball position.

That's too much more work. You're going to find the fall lines at each chunk of a putt? I wouldn't want to playing in a group behind you.

8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I said it was an aid to visualizing, not a 'method'. :mellow:

I'm not gonna play your words games. You're employing a certain method to attempt to read greens.

8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I pay attention to the area around the hole because that is where the ball will usually (hopefully) be slowest (other than situations like going up a ridge) and therefore prone to break more for a given slope. I am also often doing clock drills and again the yardstick provides a reference point for the 'final destination' area around the hole.

How much can a 3-foot putt break? Not much. As I've said, you have to get the ball to that area before you can worry about how much (an inch? Three?) it's going to break in that area. You're ignoring the majority of the putt, unless you're "chunking" the putt up into enough little segments.

8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Besides, don't all greens have about 2* of slope around the hole (& extending outward) on average anyway, so knowing the particular amounts of slope between the initial location of the ball and the hole don't really matter to the outcome? ;-)

No.

8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

First time I've seen that. I'd expect the system did that as I universally just hard return between lines of a quoted post and only copy/paste items from off the site.

Nope. You're doing it wrong. Mine will be fine.

Edit: See? They're fine.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

14 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Amazingly for how terrible I am at putting (and golf), I also try to take that into account too.

But per your posts, I'm clearly so ignorant I expect AimPoint is too far over my head to tackle at this stage. I probably have to become a much better golfer before I can properly understand these complex concepts.  

Here is the beauty of Aimpoint. There is nothing overly technical about it. If you ask many of us who use Aimpoint, we use Aimpoint express. That is even less technical than Midpoint. Aimpoint is brilliant in the way it just simplistically works. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 minute ago, natureboy said:

When I feel I have more basic foundational green reading experience I will probably do it and hopefully get a bit more out of it.

You don't need any foundation. It gives you the foundation of good green reading. I don't get why you feel you need say preexisting knowledge before going to Aimpoint. Aimpoint is meant for all golfers, from kids to PGA tour players. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

You don't need any foundation. It gives you the foundation of good green reading. I don't get why you feel you need say preexisting knowledge before going to Aimpoint. Aimpoint is meant for all golfers, from kids to PGA tour players. 

What was your GHIN before you took AimPoint?

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites


11 minutes ago, natureboy said:

What was your GHIN before you took AimPoint?

It doesn't matter what my GHIN was. GHIN is a horrible measuring stick to determine the competency of green reading. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
24 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

You don't need any foundation. It gives you the foundation of good green reading. I don't get why you feel you need say preexisting knowledge before going to Aimpoint. Aimpoint is meant for all golfers, from kids to PGA tour players. 

I second this. AimPoint Express was originally developed to teach children. Then they learned how effective it was so they started teaching it to everyone. Children don't have good foundational green reading experience, whatever that's supposed to mean anyway.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

@natureboyIf AImpoint helps you make 2 or 3 more putts per round is that not worth the little time it takes to learn it? It may not have a huge overall impact on your HC but being able to get your lag putts closer to the hole and/or just make more putts is worth it. I don't necessarily utilize all the aspects of aimpoint express that I learned, but what I do use has helped me drop from 2.5 putts per hole to 1.9 putts per hole. And that number is still getting lower. In all honesty, if I really started using the full method I would do even better, so I will probably try to get back into using it.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

23 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It doesn't matter what my GHIN was. GHIN is a horrible measuring stick to determine the competency of green reading. 

Well not necessarily.  If you added Aimpoint to your repertoire at a point where little else also changed, you could certainly use it as a barometer for how much it's helped you.

Of course, if you're like me, that probably didn't happen.  Im constantly working on your swing, and within a fairly small timespan I also added my edel putter and Eriks "don't accelerate" putting styles to my arsenal.  Not to mention a new driver, new wedges, a better pitching stroke, etc, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

Well not necessarily.  If you added Aimpoint to your repertoire at a point where little else also changed, you could certainly use it as a barometer for how much it's helped you.

I would probably say getting fitted for my Edel Putter helped me more. Distance control was always a bigger detriment to my putting over green reading. 

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Of course, if you're like me, that probably didn't happen.  Im constantly working on your swing, and within a fairly small timespan I also added my edel putter and Eriks "don't accelerate" putting styles to my arsenal.  Not to mention a new driver, new wedges, a better pitching stroke, etc, etc.

For me it's been my improvement in the long game that has helped lower my handicap. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

55 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It doesn't matter what my GHIN was. GHIN is a horrible measuring stick to determine the competency of green reading. 

So your prior experience didn't matter in getting the most out of it. That's good to know. Generally putting skills do also track with HCP (assuming a fairly balanced game) for the average population at each HCP.

I think AimPoint has great value. I'm just not ready to spring for the big bucks yet. I think the visualizations they put out like the ones I posted are very helpful for golfers playing for a few years like me to get some of the basic concepts.

40 minutes ago, billchao said:

I second this. AimPoint Express was originally developed to teach children.

I have a chance! :dance:

24 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I would probably say getting fitted for my Edel Putter helped me more.

Interesting.

24 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Distance control was always a bigger detriment to my putting over green reading. 

I probably suffer from both, but distance control may have been a bit more of an issue, because I hadn't even correctly identified that my putter had an off-center sweet spot when I started.

Edited by natureboy

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Just now, natureboy said:

So your prior experience didn't matter in getting the most out of it. That's good to know. Generally putting skills do also track with HCP (assuming a fairly balanced game) for the average population at each HCP.

Putting skill is based on three things. Reading greens, hitting your target line, and distance control. Missing one out of the three can bleed into the other two and cause you to be a poor putter. I would say green reading isn't going to hurt you as much as having poor distance control or very inconsistent start lines. 

My Edel putter influenced my putting more because I lost a ton of strokes three putting. That wasn't misreading greens for me. 

 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Took Aimpoint express last season and have used it on and off.  It helps me because I use too much of my eyes and not  enough of my feet to read the green . I remember the time I was starting to putt well, I started noticing things like uneven humps on the floor of the hallway outside my office that I never notice before with my feet 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


17 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Putting skill is based on three things. Reading greens, hitting your target line, and distance control. Missing one out of the three can bleed into the other two and cause you to be a poor putter. I would say green reading isn't going to hurt you as much as having poor distance control or very inconsistent start lines. 

My Edel putter influenced my putting more because I lost a ton of strokes three putting. That wasn't misreading greens for me. 

 

 

While noting that the topic here is "reading greens," this post is spot on -- imo, a typical golfer needs to ensure they spend plenty of time on line and speed, and not get too caught up and go overboard with green reading.  My "green reading" skills always seem to be best when I put more of my practice emphasis on hitting 3 foot to 10 foot straight putts.

Edited by BallStriker

"Getting paired with you is the equivalent to a two-stroke penalty to your playing competitors"  -- Sean O'Hair to Rory Sabbatini (Zurich Classic, 2011)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
50 minutes ago, BallStriker said:

While noting that the topic here is "reading greens," this post is spot on -- imo, a typical golfer needs to ensure they spend plenty of time on line and speed, and not get too caught up and go overboard with green reading.  My "green reading" skills always seem to be best when I put more of my practice emphasis on hitting 3 foot to 10 foot straight putts.

Yep. Read, bead, and speed:

I actually recommend players work on those three things separately. Because you can mess up two and occasionally make some putts (especially if they're read and bead)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: If you take AimPoint class, be sure to wear shorts, or flat-hem slacks that just touch the top of your shoes. Cuffed slacks or baggy workout pants can obstruct the measurement process AP teaches. (Trust me on this).

On 5/25/2016 at 4:33 PM, Golfingdad said:

... the biggest takeaway for me with Aimpoint was how much easier it is to read greens (and not be tricked by visual features) by reading the greens by feel.

I took the AimPoint Express 1 and 2 classes yesterday. @Aflighter, please don't take offense at my next statement, because I had similar worries before the class: The feel concept has a scientific basis to it, and involves a step-by-step process. It involves more than standing on a slanted green waiting for your feet to tingle with enlightenment. (The decision rules vary for different types of putts, such as uphill and downhill).

Assorted YouTube videos give you hints on what is involved in the system, but the actual class shows you the how.

And, AimPoint is not something you can learn deeply in a day. The classes show you the how and lets you practice different parts of the system. But, it would take some work to really become proficient, and to "get automatic" in using the process. Also, the instructor said it becomes easier to use on courses you play a lot.

And, I suspect that in the off-season, you would need to go out and practice AimPoint skills every couple of weeks to stay sharp.

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
  • GolfWorks Clubmaking AcademyFitting, Assembly & Repair School (2012)

Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
Hybrid:  :callaway: Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  :callaway: Mavrik MAX 5i-PW
Wedges:  :callaway: MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter:image.png.b6c3447dddf0df25e482bf21abf775ae.pngInertial NM SL-583F, 34"  
Ball:  image.png.f0ca9194546a61407ba38502672e5ecf.png QStar Tour - Divide  ||  Bag: :sunmountain: Three 5 stand bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
20 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

Note: If you take AimPoint class, be sure to wear shorts, or flat-hem slacks that just touch the top of your shoes. Cuffed slacks or baggy workout pants can obstruct the measurement process AP teaches. (Trust me on this).

That's not really true. Some people (instructors) like the knee thing. Others don't. I use it occasionally, and I always wear pants. Wear what you want.

Glad you took the class John. Now get back to working on that swing. :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 3:31 PM, BallStriker said:

 

While noting that the topic here is "reading greens," this post is spot on -- imo, a typical golfer needs to ensure they spend plenty of time on line and speed, and not get too caught up and go overboard with green reading.  My "green reading" skills always seem to be best when I put more of my practice emphasis on hitting 3 foot to 10 foot straight putts.

Back when I was really rolling it good, I used to practice flat putts that broke only slighty right to left.

Since I knew the break was a ball or at most 2 balls, depending on distance, I would work back and forth on that line to hone my stroke. That method worked so well for me that sometimes, I could get out to about 15 feet, putting around every foot, before I'd miss. That drill helped make me super confident on the greens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 2:03 PM, WUTiger said:

 Also, the instructor said it becomes easier to use on courses you play a lot.

A rather odd statement that seems to indicate more of a basis on familiarity than merely developing a skill.  Not to say that it won't help in the process, but if you putt on the same greens every week, given enough time and enough putts, that alone could be more beneficial.

I bought the DVD and I am planning on watching it and seeing what I can glean from it.  I think the system has merit.

John

Edited by 70sSanO
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2849 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.
    • If it's not broken don't fix it. If you want to add grooves to it just because of looks that's your choice of course. Grooves are cut into putter faces to reduce skid, the roll faced putter is designed to do the same thing. I'm no expert but it seems counter productive to add grooves to the roll face. Maybe you can have it sand-blasted or something to clean up the face. Take a look at Tigers putter, its beat to hell but he still uses it.     
    • I get trying to limit relief to the fairway, but how many roots do you typically find in the fairway? Our local rule allows for relief from roots & rocks anywhere on the course (that is in play). My home course has quite a few 100 year old oaks that separate the fairways. Lift and move the ball no closer to the hole. None of us want to damage clubs.
    • Hello, I've been playing a Teardrop td17 F.C. putter for many years and love it. It still putts and feels as good or  better than any of the new putters I've tried and it's in excellent condition except the face has dings in it ever since I bought it used that kind of bother me. I was just wondering if it's possible to have some really shallow horizontal grooves milled into the face on a "roll face" putter. I think I would rather spend some money on it instead of trying to get used to a new putter.  Thanks
    • I agree with @klineka & @DaveP043 above.  When a new member first joins the club they cold be told that they are not eligible for tournaments until they have an established HCP.  As you said, it only takes a few rounds.  If they do not to post HCP that was their choice and choices have consequences.  If playing in the tournament is important to them then they should step up and establish an HCP.  Maybe they miss the 1st tournament, is that a real big deal?  And if it is a "Big Deal" to them then they had the opportunity to establish the HCP. As for not knowing how to report for HCP I assume your club has a pro and they should be able to assist in getting the scores reported and I suspect out of state courses may also have staff that can assist if asked.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...