Kaepernick Sits for National Anthem

[14ledo81]

49 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Very much doubt that.  Its just more fuel for those who already think he's being a jerk.  You know ... that whole "agree with everything or leave the country" crowd. 

Not everything needs to be agreed with.  I certainly don't.  I do think we have more good than bad here though.

[Golfingdad]

10 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Not everything needs to be agreed with.  I certainly don't.  I do think we have more good than bad here though.

Sorry.  "If you agree with at least 51% of everything, then sit down and shut up.  If it's under 50% , then pack your stuff and go."  Is that a little more accurate?

[JxQx]

2 hours ago, drmevo said:

The government isn't punishing him for exercising his first amendment rights, so it really has nothing to do with that. People are just expressing how they feel about what he did. What's the big deal with that?

People can do whatever they want, but like I said I think people are getting upset over a non issue imo. He isn't doing anything different than a lot of other people in his same stature are doing but people are acting like this is a way bigger deal for some odd reason. 

[newtogolf]

25 minutes ago, JxQx said:

People can do whatever they want, but like I said I think people are getting upset over a non issue imo. He isn't doing anything different than a lot of other people in his same stature are doing but people are acting like this is a way bigger deal for some odd reason. 

He did it for to get attention for himself and his cause so you can't be shocked when people react, especially with social media and 24/7 news coverage.  

[Fourputt]

On 8/29/2016 at 1:21 PM, 14ledo81 said:

Here is the deal young man. My recommendation is that you apologize. Be a stand up fella and admit you made a very stupid comment. Humbly state that you do realize how very special this country is and the opportunities it has afforded you — and many others. You should take that stand and apologize to all of those who are currently serving in our Armed Forces and those veterans who’ve been willing to make that last full measure of devotion. You see, when the National Anthem is played, it has a very special meaning to us — maybe you should take a hiatus and go over to Helmand Province in Afghanistan and spend a week and understand why. Go over and throw a football with the men and women who enable you to earn those millions of dollars.

The American flag has a very touching meaning for those of us for whom it will drape our coffin — as it was for my Dad…and it will be for me. That song defines who we are as a proud and exceptional people. This is a land where so many dream of coming to and earning the title of American. Your actions were shameful, disgusting, despicable and disrespectful.

You do have a right and a freedom of expression. But know, there are consequences to your ignorant action, which is what it was.

When the National Anthem is played, I salute because I am a black man born and raised in the inner city afforded the opportunity for greatness in my own right. May you seek God’s forgiveness and find humility, because we, the people are not going to forget what you did and said.

 

 

Another interesting (portion of) article.  This is from a black man that had served in the military.

This sums it up for me.  I also served, and I feel that while it's right to protest, it should be aimed at the specific problem, not at our nation's founding principles.  Those principles are not at fault, only some specific acts by specific individuals.  I don't have enough information to say whether or not the court system worked in those cases when the defendant was found not guilty.  

I also don't know for what reasons the juries reached their decisions.  In many cases, the perpetrators have been brought to trial and some have been found guilty.  Is it the quality of prosecution?  Quality of defense?  Lack of either?  I don't see it being any different from any criminal proceeding.  The guilty aren't always punished, and sometimes (rarely, considering the sheer number of cases which are prosecuted) the innocent are.  It's not a perfect system, but it beats what most of the world calls justice.

However such things occur, they do not reflect national policy or morés.  Contrary to what some on the far left and right (interesting that both ends of the spectrum tend to believe that, albeit for different reasons) would have us believe, we do not live in a police state.  If we did, Kaepernick would have been hauled off the field and never seen again.  He may disappear soon, but if so it will be his lack of playing ability, not his political beliefs that do it, unless those beliefs end up affecting the 49er's revenues.

I have disliked Kaepernick since he first come onto the NFL scene (I'd never heard of him before that), mostly because he has never shown any concern for anything but what he could get for himself.  He has always been all about ME, with no WE.  Now he is suddenly a civil rights activist?  Are we to now believe that he is completely altruistic with no ulterior motive?  Color me suspicious.

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

Sorry.  "If you agree with at least 51% of everything, then sit down and shut up.  If it's under 50% , then pack your stuff and go."  Is that a little more accurate?

No. That is still not how I feel. But if a person thinks things are so bad they can't support the nation as a whole, maybe they could find somewhere else they actually like better??

[Gunther]

4 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Sorry.  "If you agree with at least 51% of everything, then sit down and shut up.  If it's under 50% , then pack your stuff and go."  Is that a little more accurate?

That's a bit misrepresentative and disingenuous on your part bud.  I think you're kidding around to some degree because I'm pretty sure you're aware of that.

I think it's been established that Kaepernick is completely wrong on the facts but has demonstrated his right to speak out.  He won't face repurcussions from any government entity, but he is facing consequences and they're not pretty and well-deserved.

[Golfingdad]

5 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

No. That is still not how I feel. But if a person thinks things are so bad they can't support the nation as a whole, maybe they could find somewhere else they actually like better??

Now, wait a sec...

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

That's a bit misrepresentative and disingenuous on your part bud.  I think you're kidding around to some degree because I'm pretty sure you're aware of that.

I think it's been established that Kaepernick is completely wrong on the facts but has demonstrated his right to speak out.  He won't face repurcussions from any government entity, but he is facing consequences and they're not pretty and well-deserved.

I admit to it being a little light hearted ribbing but not disingenuous.  Here's what he said ...

On August 29, 2016 at 8:00 AM, 14ledo81 said:

If there is more good than bad (I believe there is), than a person should show support.  If a person believes there is more bad than good, then leave.

How different is what I said than that?

And when questioned previously ...

On August 29, 2016 at 11:12 AM, 14ledo81 said:

Basically.  Either you like something or you don't.  If you don't, move on.

So ... :)

[rkim291968]

For those who didn't like Kaepernick's action, what do you think of DJ & JS refusing to play for USA at Rio?  

 

As for me, I am OK with Kaepernick's action but hated DJ & JS decision to refuse to play for USA.  Kaep believes in something other than himself and took a brave course of  action.   

 

[Jeremie Boop]

4 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

For those who didn't like Kaepernick's action, what do you think of DJ & JS refusing to play for USA at Rio?  

 

As for me, I am OK with Kaepernick's action but hated DJ & JS decision to refuse to play for USA.  Kaep believes in something other than himself and took a brave course of  action.   

 

I didn't care about them not playing. I disagree with the idea that it should be pros playing in the Olympics. I know it's an outdated idea, but I still hold that the Olympics should be for amateurs to compete. Really these two things aren't even close to the same either, because DJ and JS didn't refuse to play for the USA because they were protesting something. 

Also, "brave course of action"? OK then.

[14ledo81]

6 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Now, wait a sec...

I admit to it being a little light hearted ribbing but not disingenuous.  Here's what he said ...

How different is what I said than that?

And when questioned previously ...

So ... :)

I have never mentioned that someone couldn't protest (sit down and shut up).  Like Erik said before, I don't even like everything about my wife (just in case she reads this, it's really just the hair left in the shower honey..:)...), I certainly do support her (and our marriage) while I complain about the hair. 

 

[Hardspoon]

9 hours ago, Gunther said:

I think it's been established that Kaepernick is completely wrong on the facts

What facts? He views something as an injustice; you don't. Those are opinions.

 

9 hours ago, Gunther said:

but he is facing consequences and they're not pretty and well-deserved.

He hasn't yet. Maybe it will be a little tougher to land with another team when he's done with the 49ers, but it hasn't affected him yet.

If you are talking about Sportscenter or a bunch of over-sensitive folks on Internet forums who are all upset about this, I don't think he gives a s--t.

It is good to see veterans standing up for him - hopefully it removes the "he isn't supporting the military" aspect (I don't think one has anything to do with the other), and his actions can be judged on their other merits.

 

[Valleygolfer]

According to his new found rep, he is going to have a lot of time to "sit" now...

On another note...

[mcanadiens]

On 8/30/2016 at 1:07 PM, paininthenuts said:

Yes, God save the queen !!

Is that to say that you've got room for the old boy in jolly old England.

You send us your washed-up footballers and we'll send you ours.

[Gunther]

53 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

What facts? He views something as an injustice; you don't. Those are opinions.

 

He hasn't yet. Maybe it will be a little tougher to land with another team when he's done with the 49ers, but it hasn't affected him yet.

If you are talking about Sportscenter or a bunch of over-sensitive folks on Internet forums who are all upset about this, I don't think he gives a s--t.

It is good to see veterans standing up for him - hopefully it removes the "he isn't supporting the military" aspect (I don't think one has anything to do with the other), and his actions can be judged on their other merits.

 

The facts he has been fed around his "opinion" are completely false.  Cops aren't killing blacks at a rate any higher than whites, Michael Brown's killing was proven justified, the cops were proven innocent in the Baltimore thing.  When cops kill in an unjustified manner, they are charged and convicted.  So, he's just another useful idiot for the hate group promoting these inane, anarchist ideas.

He was booed lustily, in SF no less.  This will cost him endorsement dollars and it's not something a stint on Dancing with the Stars can fix.

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, Gunther said:

The facts he has been fed around his "opinion" are completely false.  Cops aren't killing blacks at a rate any higher than whites, Michael Brown's killing was proven justified, the cops were proven innocent in the Baltimore thing.  When cops kill in an unjustified manner, they are charged and convicted.  So, he's just another useful idiot for the hate group promoting these inane, anarchist ideas.

He was booed lustily, in SF no less.  This will cost him endorsement dollars and it's not something a stint on Dancing with the Stars can fix.

You'd be wrong. A former cop and criminal analyst has stated that blacks are 3x more likely to be shot on a per capita basis. Which means they are shot and killed at a higher rate than whites are.

"Blacks are three times as likely to be killed by cops as are whites, on a per-capita basis,” Peter Moskos, a former Baltimore police officer and criminal justice researcher at John Jay College of Criminal Justice told the New York Times last April. “But part of that is because of crime in predominantly black neighborhoods.""

If whites where killed at the same rate as blacks based on the population size there would be substantially more white people killed. 

This is consistent with criminal statistics which are primarily based on population. 

[mcanadiens]

22 minutes ago, Gunther said:

The facts he has been fed around his "opinion" are completely false.  Cops aren't killing blacks at a rate any higher than whites, Michael Brown's killing was proven justified, the cops were proven innocent in the Baltimore thing.  When cops kill in an unjustified manner, they are charged and convicted.  So, he's just another useful idiot for the hate group promoting these inane, anarchist ideas.

He was booed lustily, in SF no less.  This will cost him endorsement dollars and it's not something a stint on Dancing with the Stars can fix.

Locally, we had a black fellow shot at a Wal-Mart while holding an air rifle someone carelessly left unboxed on a shelf. I guess it may still come to something, but that one looked bad. My point is that, it does happen.

Each case has its own set of facts. In my opinion, we've got a problem in that 1) people (the media) love to string individual incidents, publicize the hell out of them and scare people in the process. 2) There is always a rush to judgement. People react before they even get the facts of what happened.

 

 

[CarlSpackler]

13 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Locally, we had a black fellow shot at a Wal-Mart while holding an air rifle someone carelessly left unboxed on a shelf. I guess it may still come to something, but that one looked bad. My point is that, it does happen.

Each case has its own set of facts. In my opinion, we've got a problem in that 1) people (the media) love to string individual incidents, publicize the hell out of them and scare people in the process. 2) There is always a rush to judgement. People react before they even get the facts of what happened.

In that case, the police did not know that it was an air rifle. He took off running when the police told him to drop his weapon. Unfortunately, he turned the corner of the aisle and there was another officer there who only saw an armed man running towards him with a weapon. I would wager that a majority of us would have fired in that same circumstance. I'm not sure if the officer who shot him knew what race he was or had time to process it. My belief is that he would have still fired if it was not a minority. So far, everyone has been exonerated in the judicial system.

There is a campaign ad airing down here comparing 2 similar traffic stops. In one case, a minority was arrested and the non-minority was set free. They perpetuate this story and everyone is up in arms about racial injustice. What they don't tell you is that the minority had multiple outstanding felony warrants, so he was not actually arrested for the traffic stop. That is what they are insinuating though. The folks perpetuating the inequality stance are either not being truthful with themselves or others, or not fully investigating that facts.

With that being said, there IS racial injustice in the world that needs to be dealt with. I have experienced managers who have bypassed resumes because of the name on it. I hear racial slurs. We all, minority groups included, make assumptions about someone based on appearance whether it's their skin color, cleanliness, clothing, weight, etc. If you say you don't, then you are not being honest. What we really need to do is acknowledge when we do this and get the heck over it. 

::Steps off soapbox::