Kaepernick Sits for National Anthem

[Fourputt]

4 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Have you bothered to look?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/colin-kaepernick-announces-million-donation-part-plan-protest/story?id=41822972

 

I guess it would have made more of an impact on me if he had said anything about his feelings about before the act.  The act without any context didn't really make any sort of a positive statement about anything.  

[drmevo]

1 minute ago, Fourputt said:

I guess it would have made more of an impact on me if he had said anything about his feelings about before the act.  The act without any context didn't really make any sort of a positive statement about anything.  

Sorry, but I don't really buy that. He's had numerous interviews with the press where he explains his position. I'm sure he knew that after the first time he sat down for the anthem he'd get asked about it. And I don't think he's out to make a "positive statement" - he's pointing out what he perceives as injustice.

I'm not 100% behind everything he says or does (I thought he pig socks thing was pretty dumb and divisive) but I think people need to actually look into what he is saying and doing before criticizing him.  When people assume he's just some dumb overpaid athlete and spout off on it they are just helping him make his point.

[Golfingdad]

19 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Hey, he came into the league and he was all about himself,.

What's the basis for this opinion?  It's not a rhetorical, but a genuine question, because I don't remember any controversy surrounding him before this.  But I'm not a 49ers fan so I'm not really paying attention.

2 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Sorry, but I don't really buy that. He's had numerous interviews with the press where he explains his position. I'm sure he knew that after the first time he sat down for the anthem he'd get asked about it. And I don't think he's out to make a "positive statement" - he's pointing out what he perceives as injustice.

I'm not 100% behind everything he says or does (I thought he pig socks thing was pretty dumb and divisive) but I think people need to actually look into what he is saying and doing before criticizing him.  When people assume he's just some dumb overpaid athlete and spout off on it they are just helping him make his point.

Agree, good post.  I am by no means a Kaepernick supporter or fan at all, but it seems most of the criticism is just yelling and piling on for the heck of it.

[14ledo81]

8 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

 

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As @drmevo pointed out, that doesn't make any sense at all.  You are contradicting yourself here.  You're saying you know what he means, but are taking offense anyway where you know it isn't intended?

Okie dokie.

 

So you have never been offended unintentionally before??  

Okie dokie...

What I meant is I doubt he realizes how much offense his actions cause.  Just because he doesn't realize it or intend it, doesn't make it ok in my book.

[newtogolf]

37 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

So you have never been offended unintentionally before??  

Okie dokie...

What I meant is I doubt he realizes how much offense his actions cause.  Just because he doesn't realize it or intend it, doesn't make it ok in my book.

They realize it, they don't care.  They don't care how it impacts their teammates, families, fans, sponsors, Veterans or families that have lost loved ones defending the flag,  but that's likely because none of them hold anything sacred or important enough to show deferential respect to.  

The sad part is they are all Soros's puppets who dumped millions into BLM and is pulling the strings.   

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

They realize it, they don't care.  They don't care how it impacts their teammates, families, fans, sponsors, Veterans or families that have lost loved ones defending the flag,  but that's likely because none of them hold anything sacred or important enough to show deferential respect to.  

The sad part is they are all Soros's puppets who dumped millions into BLM and is pulling the strings.   

Nobody is out there defending the flag.  Come on now.  It's a piece of cloth for crying out loud.

Theyre defending the citizens of this country, and the rights and freedoms we all have - one of which happens to be peaceful protest and the right to sit during the national anthem or even burn a flag if they so desired.

[Ernest Jones]

7 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

So you have never been offended unintentionally before??  

Okie dokie...

I think you mean "intentionally offended unintentionally". 

[Ernest Jones]

7 hours ago, newtogolf said:

They realize it, they don't care.  They don't care how it impacts their teammates, families, fans, sponsors, Veterans or families that have lost loved ones defending the flag,  but that's likely because none of them hold anything sacred or important enough to show deferential respect to.  

The sad part is they are all Soros's puppets who dumped millions into BLM and is pulling the strings.   

Umm....yeah....the "impact" of seeing some athlete sit during the anthem most be horrifying. Gimmie a break, there's a lot of bad shit going on in the world and people just don't want to talk about it because it interferes with their ability to blissfully ignore it all. Then when someone, anyone, raises the issues they're labeled as unpatriotic - love it or leave it!!!! - and everybody smirks and says, "oh, that'll cost him some sponsors"

I can make a list a mile long of all the horrible shit that is happening to the world - not just the USA - and watching football doesn't fix any of it. So kudus to all the football players - more and more - who are using their celebrity to raise the topics, in this case BLM, but it's certainly not the only issue that needs to be addressed. 

 

[Valleygolfer]

Here's a little story for you guys.

When I was in the Air Force at tech school, everyday at 4 or 5 o'clock not sure which the national anthem would play on the PA system and we would have to face the flag and salute if we were outside while it played no matter what we were doing or we would get called in. The PA system would have this audible click about 5-7 seconds before playing and if young airmen were close to the indoors (and some not so close) they bust it inside to avoid standing at attention. At times it was a crazy looking mad dash inside of airmen.

This from people defending our country albeit still kids mostly.

[newtogolf]

7 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Nobody is out there defending the flag.  Come on now.  It's a piece of cloth for crying out loud.

Theyre defending the citizens of this country, and the rights and freedoms we all have - one of which happens to be peaceful protest and the right to sit during the national anthem or even burn a flag if they so desired.

It's what the flag represents and symbolizes not the materials it's made of.  

Go visit a Veterans hospital (I have) and take a look around.  Those men and women risked their lives and sacrificed their bodies for that "piece of cloth" because it represents our country, the lives of those that were lost to provide us our independence and the lives of those that have protected it since.  

I support peaceful protest, I question their motives, timing and true understanding of what the problems are.  As influential members in our society (whether they should be or not is another thread topic) they have a greater responsibility to ensure their protest message is clear and thus far it's not.  

[iacas]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

It's what the flag represents and symbolizes not the materials it's made of.

One of the things it stands for is a person's right to sit during the national anthem if they want.

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

Go visit a Veterans hospital (I have) and take a look around. Those men and women risked their lives and sacrificed their bodies for that "piece of cloth" because it represents our country, the lives of those that were lost to provide us our independence and the lives of those that have protected it since.

No, they didn't. They didn't do it for a piece of cloth.

And my buddy works at a VA and is former military himself. He took no offense to what Kaepernick did. Zero. He said it's his right to do it. He disagreed with his position, but not with him sitting during the national anthem.

Go to a hockey game, or a baseball game, and watch how many people are sitting. People don't take their hats off. They don't put their hands over their hearts as I was taught. And they aren't even trying to protest things.

Heck, some guys are literally peeing during the national anthem.

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

I support peaceful protest, I question their motives, timing and true understanding of what the problems are.

Like… sitting?

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

As influential members in our society (whether they should be or not is another thread topic) they have a greater responsibility to ensure their protest message is clear and thus far it's not.  

You're unclear about what he's protesting?

[Ernest Jones]

Maybe something should be done about these folks...

I find it a little disturbing that when a black man does in protest of a perceived social injustice everyone is outraged, but when a bunch of the country's leaders do it simply because they're lazy and don't give a shit there's no outcry. Should they go find some other country to live in too?

[mcanadiens]

When you are talking about things like the national anthem and the flag, it's obvious they mean more to some people than others. This whole saga has shown they mean more to me than they do a lot of you.

Song or a piece of cloth trivializes it. Rational or not, there is a sense of identity that is there. To people that feel that way, CK may as well have been personally calling them racists.  Surely that's not what he meant, but that's how many interpreted it.

Still, I'm personally surprised this thing has banged on as long as it has. I suppose ole boy couldn't really have hoped to get this much attention out of it.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

When you are talking about things like the national anthem and the flag, it's obvious they mean more to some people than others. This whole saga has shown they mean more to me than they do a lot of you.

The symbol means less to me than you, perhaps, but it'd be dumb to assume that what the symbol represents means less to other people.

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

Song or a piece of cloth trivializes it. Rational or not, there is a sense of identity that is there. To people that feel that way, CK may as well have been personally calling them racists.  Surely that's not what he meant, but that's how many interpreted it.

CK was not calling you a racist. To feel that or take that from it is ridiculous, IMO.

I try not to waste my time contemplating the ridiculous. There's no point. It's a total waste of time.

[mcanadiens]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

The symbol means less to me than you, perhaps, but it'd be dumb to assume that what the symbol represents means less to other people.

CK was not calling you a racist. To feel that or take that from it is ridiculous, IMO.

I try not to waste my time contemplating the ridiculous. There's no point. It's a total waste of time.

Ridiculous is your opinion and you can have it. Very obviously, other people did take it that way. 

 

[newtogolf]

38 minutes ago, iacas said:

And my buddy works at a VA and is former military himself. He took no offense to what Kaepernick did. Zero. He said it's his right to do it. He disagreed with his position, but not with him sitting during the national anthem.

Go to a hockey game, or a baseball game, and watch how many people are sitting. People don't take their hats off. They don't put their hands over their hearts as I was taught. And they aren't even trying to protest things.

Okay great, so your buddy isn't offended, I know Veterans that are, what does that prove?  Your buddies opinion is no more or less important than those I know.  

40 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're unclear about what he's protesting?

Yes, this is what he said...

Quote

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” Kaepernick told Wyche. “To me, this is bigger than football, and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”
 

What is the oppression he's protesting, was he denied the right to play football in the NFL and make millions of dollars?  Do we not have a black POTUS that has run this country for the last 7.5 years?  Who are the oppressors he's protesting against?  White people? Police Officers?  There are a lot more bodies in the street from black on black crime compared to those killed by LEO while being arrested, where is the protest for that?  

People in this country are guaranteed due process, you can't be penalized for a crime if it's not certain you committed a crime.  When a football player is suspected of an offense that violates their code of conduct policy they continue to get paid until a ruling is reached, a penalty (if applicable) is assessed and an appeal (if made) is heard.   Why should a police officer that hasn't been convicted of a crime be treated differently? 

As for "getting away with murder", that's how our criminal justice system works, sometimes the bad guys are innocent and sometimes the bad guys get off on a technicality.  Is he just as upset when a criminal who murdered and/or raped someone walks free because the DA was incompetent or some other technicality or does he just care about police officers?

[Elmer]

9 hours ago, newtogolf said:

They realize it, they don't care.  They don't care how it impacts their teammates, families, fans, sponsors, Veterans or families that have lost loved ones defending the flag,  but that's likely because none of them hold anything sacred or important enough to show deferential respect to.  

The sad part is they are all Soros's puppets who dumped millions into BLM and is pulling the strings.   

 

54 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It's what the flag represents and symbolizes not the materials it's made of.  

Go visit a Veterans hospital (I have) and take a look around.  Those men and women risked their lives and sacrificed their bodies for that "piece of cloth" because it represents our country, the lives of those that were lost to provide us our independence and the lives of those that have protected it since.  

I support peaceful protest, I question their motives, timing and true understanding of what the problems are.  As influential members in our society (whether they should be or not is another thread topic) they have a greater responsibility to ensure their protest message is clear and thus far it's not.  

You are basically reinforcing the argument against the confederate flag!!!
Both Flags are basically just cloth, that represents an idea.
And that Idea stands for something.

You don't get to salute a symbol of freedom while decrying someone for exercising their right to freedom.

especially when you consider that the person protesting, was just a 100 years ago considered a second class citizen by the government of that flag!

Reminds me of one of my favorite movie quotes:
" President Andrew Shepherd: For the last couple of months, Senator Rumson has suggested that being president of this country was, to a certain extent, about character, and although I have not been willing to engage in his attacks on me, I've been here three years and three days, and I can tell you without hesitation: Being President of this country is entirely about character. For the record: yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU. But the more important question is why aren't you, Bob? Now, this is an organization whose sole purpose is to defend the Bill of Rights, so it naturally begs the question: Why would a senator, his party's most powerful spokesman and a candidate for President, choose to reject upholding the Constitution? If you can answer that question, folks, then you're smarter than I am, because I didn't understand it until a few hours ago. America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free". I've known Bob Rumson for years, and I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Bob devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it. Well, I was wrong. Bob's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Bob's problem is that he can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and character. And wave an old photo of the President's girlfriend and you scream about patriotism and you tell them, she's to blame for their lot in life, and you go on television and you call her a *****. Sydney Ellen Wade has done nothing to you, Bob. She has done nothing but put herself through school, represent the interests of public school teachers, and lobby for the safety of our natural resources. You want a character debate, Bob? You better stick with me, 'cause Sydney Ellen Wade is way out of your league.  "

8 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Okay great, so your buddy isn't offended, I know Veterans that are, what does that prove?  Your buddies opinion is no more or less important than those I know.  

Yes, this is what he said...

What is the oppression he's protesting, was he denied the right to play football in the NFL and make millions of dollars?  Do we not have a black POTUS that has run this country for the last 7.5 years?  Who are the oppressors he's protesting against?  White people? Police Officers?  There are a lot more bodies in the street from black on black crime compared to those killed by LEO while being arrested, where is the protest for that?  

 

 

you are right, we have a black president. there fore there is no Racism in this country!

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Ridiculous is your opinion and you can have it. Very obviously, other people did take it that way. 

Yep. Nor will I waste my time trying to figure out anyone with a ridiculous viewpoint.

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Okay great, so your buddy isn't offended, I know Veterans that are, what does that prove?  Your buddies opinion is no more or less important than those I know.

I didn't say it was. It's just a data point. And a different point of view.

But I'm sure you stand and put your hand over your heart and remove your hat every time you hear the national anthem. And I'm sure you honor and obey the flag code. And I'm sure you stop every time you see a flag being displayed improperly… Yeah?

It's a symbol. It's a "thing," it's not "the thing."

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Yes, this is what he said...

That's all he's ever said on the topic? That's it - the entirety? C'mon…

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

What is the oppression he's protesting, was he denied the right to play football in the NFL and make millions of dollars?  Do we not have a black POTUS that has run this country for the last 7.5 years?

Huh?

I'm going to have to assume you are not suggesting that Obama is 100% proof positive that there is no oppression at all in this country.

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

There are a lot more bodies in the street from black on black crime compared to those killed by LEO while being arrested, where is the protest for that?

So are you suggesting that to protest one thing, he has to protest all other things, too? Or else, what, he's a hypocrite? What?

Maybe he doesn't want to protest or talk about a bunch of black gang bangers killing each other over drug territories, but does care about white police officers killing an inordinate number of black people without justifiable cause. (Or whatever it is he's protesting… not that you seem to know… ).

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

People in this country are guaranteed due process, you can't be penalized for a crime if it's not certain you committed a crime.  When a football player is suspected of an offense that violates their code of conduct policy they continue to get paid until a ruling is reached, a penalty (if applicable) is assessed and an appeal (if made) is heard. Why should a police officer that hasn't been convicted of a crime be treated differently?

What's that got to do with anything? Nobody's said anything about due process here (that I know).

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Is he just as upset when a criminal who murdered and/or raped someone walks free because the DA was incompetent or some other technicality or does he just care about police officers?

You're missing the point that he doesn't have to be!

Let's start applying this bizarre standard to you. Henceforth, any time you claim to be upset or bothered about something, we're going to ask you for your position on every other topic, or at least ten or twenty randomly chosen ones, and if you can't show that you've done things to raise public awareness about those things, we're going to completely disregard your original post.