Kaepernick Sits for National Anthem

[Jeremie Boop]

40 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I've read a lot of what's been said here by both sides and we seem to be going off in tangents that are missing the main points;

Everyone here seems to agree that it's acceptable to protest peacefully, regardless of the cause.  Though some believe there are times and locations where peaceful protests should not be conducted.

1. Some of those who believe that the Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem are important rituals / traditions also feel it's inappropriate to peacefully protest during these times due to it being disrespectful to those who serve(d) in the military.
    
2. Some question the timing and motivation of Colin Kaepernick to stage these protests at the beginning of this season.  Some believe the timing of him losing his starting job at QB could be a catalyst for him wanting to draw more attention to himself since he's never previously made mention of his resentment towards our country.
    
3. Some believe the "cause" CK is peacefully protesting is divisive and misguided and don't believe it's a worthy cause to warrant disrespecting the flag, Pledge or National Anthem.

When it comes down to it, everyone needs to really look inside themselves and determine why they are offended by CK's protests.  

I initially believed I was offended 90% due to the reasoning in #1 and 10% of #2 but then after reading more, looking at some of your comments I realized that if someone else was protesting for another cause that I really believed in and supported would I be as offended and I honestly couldn't say I would be.  So it turns out my issues are more about #2 and #3 which means I change my position even though I still question CK's motives I respect his right to do what he is.

It was a good mental exercise and enlightening so I encourage you all who are offended by CK's protests to work through it for yourselves if you haven't already.  

For me it's always been more 2 and 3 than anything else, but I was never offended. For me it's always been more of an eyeroll reaction to him and what he's doing. Also, I am still surprised at how much people keep talking about it, so I guess it's actually working out well for him regardless of my own feelings on the matter. It's just too bad other more important issues are being overshadowed by this.

[boogielicious]

54 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I've read a lot of what's been said here by both sides and we seem to be going off in tangents that are missing the main points;

Everyone here seems to agree that it's acceptable to protest peacefully, regardless of the cause.  Though some believe there are times and locations where peaceful protests should not be conducted.

1. Some of those who believe that the Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem are important rituals / traditions also feel it's inappropriate to peacefully protest during these times due to it being disrespectful to those who serve(d) in the military.
    
2. Some question the timing and motivation of Colin Kaepernick to stage these protests at the beginning of this season.  Some believe the timing of him losing his starting job at QB could be a catalyst for him wanting to draw more attention to himself since he's never previously made mention of his resentment towards our country.
    
3. Some believe the "cause" CK is peacefully protesting is divisive and misguided and don't believe it's a worthy cause to warrant disrespecting the flag, Pledge or National Anthem.

When it comes down to it, everyone needs to really look inside themselves and determine why they are offended by CK's protests.  

I initially believed I was offended 90% due to the reasoning in #1 and 10% of #2 but then after reading more, looking at some of your comments I realized that if someone else was protesting for another cause that I really believed in and supported would I be as offended and I honestly couldn't say I would be.  So it turns out my issues are more about #2 and #3 which means I change my position even though I still question CK's motives I respect his right to do what he is.

It was a good mental exercise and enlightening so I encourage you all who are offended by CK's protests to work through it for yourselves if you haven't already.  

Thanks for the post.

#1 is the one I've found the most odd. The Nation Anthem and US Flag represent all of us, and not just veterans and those who died in service to our country. I think those who stand by #1 are missing this or they really are #2-3, but are expressing it as #1.

I am a boy scout in personality and have always stood for the anthem. But I also believe every American has the right to peaceful protest and freedom of speech even if I disagree with them. I don't like flag burning, because it is a negative narrative and more can be accomplished with positive dialog. But some folks cannot express themselves well enough to get people to listen any other way than symbolic gestures.

That being said, I abhor bigotry and racism. It is a cancer for humans that creates violence and oppression around the world. To act like it doesn't exist in every aspect of our society is ludicrous. I understand what CK is saying, and I support his right to protest, but I fear this gesture has only started a polarized debate about the anthem and he's lost his message. 

It is sad really, because we do still have a problem. It's gotten better in my lifetime, but there is a long way to go.

[14ledo81]

4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Thanks for the post.

#1 is the one I've found the most odd. The Nation Anthem and US Flag represent all of us, and not just veterans and those who died in service to our country. I think those who stand by #1 are missing this or they really are #2-3, but are expressing it as #1.

I am a boy scout in personality and have always stood for the anthem. But I also believe every American has the right to peaceful protest and freedom of speech even if I disagree with them. I don't like flag burning, because it is a negative narrative and more can be accomplished with positive dialog. But some folks cannot express themselves well enough to get people to listen any other way than symbolic gestures.

That being said, I abhor bigotry and racism. It is a cancer for humans that creates violence and oppression around the world. To act like it doesn't exist in every aspect of our society is ludicrous. I understand what CK is saying, and I support his right to protest, but I fear this gesture has only started a polarized debate about the anthem and he's lost his message. 

It is sad really, because we do still have a problem. It's gotten better in my lifetime, but there is a long way to go.

 

Agreed with the bolded.  If he would have picked a different avenue, I believe he would/could have accomplished much more.

I also have felt that I stand by #1.  Initially because I though it was disrespectful to those that serve or have served.  As time went on though, I realized (like you mention here) that the flag represents all of us (Kaepernick included).  That is why it is so baffling to me.  Why would someone want to disrespect everybody?

[jamo]

Some of the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread would make Simone Biles jealous. 

[70sSanO]

7 hours ago, Elmer said:

Best post of the thread.  There are so many horrific acts, but violence against women seems to be universally ignored and that cuts across race and socioeconomic status.

John

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Really? That's your tactic?

I assure you my comment was not directed at you or this site.  It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Lancaster County.  Just had a Weird Al moment.

Sorry if it was received as a personal attack.  You are doing a great job!

John

[Valleygolfer]

21 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

Best post of the thread.  There are so many horrific acts, but violence against women seems to be universally ignored and that cuts across race and socioeconomic status.

John

It's not. Where have you been?

[mcanadiens]

Maybe it's just for the fact that the above pictured Mr. Turner is fairly local to me, but I've heard a bunch about that dude. 

 

[Ernest Jones]

2 hours ago, jamo said:

Some of the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread would make Simone Biles jealous. 

+1

[70sSanO]

2 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

It's not. Where have you been?

This subject might be heading OT, but you might want to take a look at conviction rates.  Especially if you look at date rape. And I won't even go into the problem on college campuses.  There is a definite stigma when it wasn't a stranger with a weapon.

There would be no rape issue if guys would think with their brain and not with their...

John

[Valleygolfer]

9 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

This subject might be heading OT, but you might want to take a look at conviction rates.  Especially if you look at date rape. And I won't even go into the problem on college campuses.  There is a definite stigma when it wasn't a stranger with a weapon.

There would be no rape issue if guys would think with their brain and not with their...

John

It has nothing to do with being ignored because it isn't. It has to do with evidence and one person's word against another. There are tons of PSA's out there about rape and abuse. Just stupid guys that do it and women who make false accusations keep it going.

 

 

[70sSanO]

29 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

It has nothing to do with being ignored because it isn't. It has to do with evidence and one person's word against another. There are tons of PSA's out there about rape and abuse. Just stupid guys that do it and women who make false accusations keep it going.

 

 

Wow!

John

[Valleygolfer]

5 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

Wow!

John

Sorry to burst your perfect little perception John. They aren't all angels.

[Valleygolfer]

I agree here.

[newtogolf]

10 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

I agree here.

Mostly agree, governments shouldn't mandate patriotism, individuals should feel a sense of national pride and wish to honor and respect to those who served their country.  

I don't stand, hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem during a sporting event for our government (I hate the individuals in our current government) but I do it as a gesture of respect to thank those who make the ultimate sacrifice for our country.  

[drmevo]

29 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

I agree here.

I agree with a lot of the video but I also think no one is saying CK doesn't have the right to be doing what he is doing.  That's a straw man that gets trotted out endlessly in a lot of arguments like this one. Side A criticizes side B's action, to which B responds "it's our/their/his/her right!" Well yeah, but that doesn't mean the action is immune to criticism.  

Edited September 17, 2016 by drmevo

[Strandly]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/after-starting-protest-of-status-quo-colin-kaepernick-didnt-vote-150157168.html

Biggest douchebag in America?  Confirmed.

[saevel25]

So people who don't vote are douchebags? I see no reason why not voting is him doing anything wrong or against what he was standing up for with the BLM. 

[Hardspoon]

1 hour ago, Strandly said:

Biggest douchebag in America?  Confirmed.

Don't be so hard on yourself.