Greenkeeper Chopping Ball

[DrewSnapper]

So i was playing a practice round and i hit my ball in the rough and the Greenkeeper started cutting that area of grass as i left the tee and when i was walking up the hole he drove straight over my ball and it shot straight across the fairway and when i saw it, it was sliced halfway through the centre of the ball. 

It just got me thinking what the ruling is if that happened in competition. 

If anyone knows what the correct ruling is could you tell me. Thanks

[mcanadiens]

Don't know about the rule, but a buddy of mine got his PW chopped up right before his eyes. Ended up having to give the lad an old one I had. Old boy must like it. He still has it in his bag three months later.

[Piz]

Rule 5-3.  Ball unfit for play.  A strong case may be made that the ball was rendered unfit for play; having taken numerous and sundry non-conforming shapes upon contact with the lawnmower blades.  

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, Piz said:

Rule 5-3.  Ball unfit for play.  A strong case may be made that the ball was rendered unfit for play; having taken numerous and sundry non-conforming shapes upon contact with the lawnmower blades.  

Sure, but does he get to drop it back at its original location?

[Strandly]

I don't know about the rule but I know the course owes me a ball. 

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

Sure, but does he get to drop it back at its original location?

I would say . .yes. Under Rule 18-1 - I consider the mower to be an outside agency.  The rule states the ball should be replaced and, if it is somehow unrecoverable, another ball may be substituted. 

Also - under Muni course rule -  "Stuff that shouldn't happen" . .it's a free drop anywhere in the vicinity, lol. 

[Buckeyebowman]

It would seem to me that "in competition" the course would not be cutting the rough! Or anywhere else while play was in progress! What kind of "competition" are you speaking of? Course sponsored, or private?

[bkuehn1952]

This really should be in the "Rules Forum".  @Rainmaker is correct that the mower guy is an outside agency.  So like a case where a bird takes or moves one's ball, play a ball from the same spot without penalty.

[Fourputt]

Since the exact location isn't known and by mowing the lie has been irrevocably altered, a ball must be dropped (not placed) as near as possible to where the ball lay when the mower hit it - no penalty.

[Martyn W]

8 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Since the exact location isn't known and by mowing the lie has been irrevocably altered, a ball must be dropped (not placed) as near as possible to where the ball lay when the mower hit it - no penalty.

The applicable Rules are 18-1 (Ball at rest moved by an OA), and 20-3c:

c. Spot Not Determinable

If it is impossible to determine the spot where the ball is to be placed or replaced:

(i)

through the green , the ball must be dropped as near as possible to the place where it lay but not in a hazard or on a putting green;

[Grinde6]

11 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

It would seem to me that "in competition" the course would not be cutting the rough! Or anywhere else while play was in progress! What kind of "competition" are you speaking of? Course sponsored, or private?

I kind of thought of this when I was reading the post.  If there is a competition going on at the course, I would assume there would be no mowing going on.  During a regular everyday round I can see it happening as it almost happened to me the other day, but during a competition they do this type of stuff late at night or early in the morning.  But yes you would get to put a new ball into play and drop in the nearest spot to where you thought it was.

[SG11118]

 

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 8:48 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

It would seem to me that "in competition" the course would not be cutting the rough! Or anywhere else while play was in progress! What kind of "competition" are you speaking of? Course sponsored, or private?

Back a month or two ago, I was attempting to qualify for my state Am, and on the back nine a guy kept mowing the roughs on the course on the holes our group was playing.  He didn't run over anyone's ball, but I kept telling myself (and the guys I was playing with) that he shouldn't be mowing around us as it was changing the course for some people in the tournament and not all.  The other two guys in my group didn't think it was a big deal, and since I was already 7 or 8 over, I didn't make a stink about it.  However, on the 18th hole, the one guy in our group that had a chance to qualify was 4 over hitting his approach to the green and as he was about to hit it, the guy started up his mower on our hole, and ball was pulled left into the water hazard.  He ended up taking a double and finishing 6 over and missing the cut.  In retrospect, the cut line was 3 over, so he would've had to have stuck his approach and made birdie.  He made no excuses about the mower after the round.  He just blamed it on himself hitting a bad shot.  I suppose what I should've done is contacted the rules official for the tournament as soon as I saw the mowing happening and got him to stop it.  I probably would've if I was playing better.  We probably only had 10-12 groups on the course, and he should've been mowing someplace else while we were on the course.

[Liko81]

On 9/1/2016 at 3:50 PM, DrewSnapper said:

So i was playing a practice round and i hit my ball in the rough and the Greenkeeper started cutting that area of grass as i left the tee and when i was walking up the hole he drove straight over my ball and it shot straight across the fairway and when i saw it, it was sliced halfway through the centre of the ball. 

It just got me thinking what the ruling is if that happened in competition. 

If anyone knows what the correct ruling is could you tell me. Thanks

This is handled by a combination of Rules 18-1, 5-3, 20-3 and Decision 13-2/4.

* 18-1 states that a ball moved by an outside agency (here, the groundskeeper) must be replaced without penalty.

* Rule 5-3 states that a player may substitute a new ball for a ball deemed unfit for play due to a cut or split (or being chopped in half).

* Decision 13-2/4 generally deals with a similar situation in which a groundskeeper improves the lie of a ball (in the decision, it's by raking a bunker when a player's ball is in it; in our situation it's by mowing the grass of the original lie). Since the action by the groundskeeper was not made under your instruction or sanction, there is no penalty and you are not required to reconstruct the original lie.

* Rule 20-3c states that because you can no longer determine the exact spot of the original lie through the green, you must drop, not place, the substitute ball as near as possible to the original lie, but not in a hazard or on the putting green.

The combination of these rules, by my read, would allow you to drop a new undamaged ball as close to the position of your original lie as can be determined, and to play from that point with no penalty.

During a sanctioned competition at a course, the groundskeeper will very likely be enjoying an iced tea in the garage, not mowing the rough along the 13th fairway, so this specific scenario is extremely unlikely (and I'd be complaining very loudly to the "Committee" organizing the competition if the groundskeeping staff were changing the conditions of the course in the middle of it).

Edited September 7, 2016 by Liko81

[DrvFrShow]

Rule 3-3c - Muni Course stuff that shouldn't happen - place new ball as close as possible to spot where original ball was before greenskeeper ran mower over it.

[Rulesman]

Which page is that rule on?