Why is golf still viewed as a sport for the "minority"

[cromulent]

5 minutes ago, sirsteveo55 said:

I do not believe that playing at a better course will help your score that much more (maybe a few strokes) compared to the everyday good courses. 

For me it was actually the reverse- I added almost a stroke per hole on putting alone the first time I played on a course of that standard. I couldn't get to grips at all with the speed and smoothness of the greens.

[newtogolf]

10 minutes ago, sirsteveo55 said:

I agree to disagree with this. I think that everyone likes to play at a better course. Who wouldn't want to play at a better course? The problem is the things that you have to do to play at a better course, are not worth playing at a better course. I do not believe that playing at a better course will help your score that much more (maybe a few strokes) compared to the everyday good courses. 

I do think you can play and enjoy a championship course, play the foreword tees I bet you will enjoy it more, than once you get better move back. 

Define "better".  Better in terms of maintenance, challenge or pace of play.  I prefer private courses because the pace of play is better and that makes it more enjoyable.  

[Patch]

2 minutes ago, sirsteveo55 said:

I agree to disagree with this. I think that everyone likes to play at a better course. Who wouldn't want to play at a better course? The problem is the things that you have to do to play at a better course, are not worth playing at a better course. I do not believe that playing at aI better course will help your score that much more (maybe a few strokes) compared to the everyday good courses. 

I do think you can play and enjoy a championship course, play the foreword tees I bet you will enjoy it more, than once you get better move back. 

I often wunder if folks score lower at the higher end courses, and those that have an enforced dress code, than they do at their own course. I know I don't, so I just figure the extra money I am paying is just for the "expirience" of playing in that type of atmosphere. 

My exception is Spyglass Hill. For the extra money, that course usually kick my back side. On the flip side, is course near Ft Worth (Rockwood ?) that is dirt cheap compared to Spyglass, that also kicks my back side. Go figure. 

 

[RussUK]

5 minutes ago, Patch said:

I often wunder if folks score lower at the higher end courses, and those that have an enforced dress code, than they do at their own course. I know I don't, so I just figure the extra money I am paying is just for the "expirience" of playing in that type of atmosphere. 

My exception is Spyglass Hill. For the extra money, that course usually kick my back side. On the flip side, is course near Ft Worth (Rockwood ?) that is dirt cheap compared to Spyglass, that also kicks my back side. Go figure. 

 

My home course has two 18 hole tracks and i generally play the intermdiate one. Its £20 on a weekend as opposed to the signature course which is more than double the price. 

I cant say i'd enjoy myself any more playing the signature course than i would the inter one. The club is a private one but offers "play and play". Still has dress code and usual etiquette rules. Plus, the signature Willow Valley course has so much water some people call it "Yorkshires Augusta". its a beast.

[shanksalot]

Golf is a game you can play for a lifetime. That is why there are so many older people still playing it. The disadvantages for the younger generation are time and money. 

[sirsteveo55]

16 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Define "better".  Better in terms of maintenance, challenge or pace of play.  I prefer private courses because the pace of play is better and that makes it more enjoyable.  

I defined better as its overall rating with everything combined (e.g. Pace of play, maintenance, etiquette enforcement etc.) 

21 minutes ago, cromulent said:

For me it was actually the reverse- I added almost a stroke per hole on putting alone the first time I played on a course of that standard. I couldn't get to grips at all with the speed and smoothness of the greens.

I could see this happening to a lot of people because I feel that your putting speed is calibrated off whatever greens you putt on the most. When you get that chance to play a nice course you don't really know the greens because you have not practiced on them enough. Your putting is not calibrated for it.

[Foot Wedge]

Golf is still viewed as an old retired man's game because the courses mainly cater to them.  Other than offer an occasional camp/clinic, or allowing children to accompany mom or dad for free, there's no real outreach to teenagers looking to get into golf.  Yearly student rates are great, but a yearly membership is quite the commitment if you've never touched a club. As someone who started playing golf at 16 and couldn't afford to play even remotely as much as I would have liked until 23, discounted rates would have been a godsend.  All this is considering that I played with my dad and I had a couple friends also interested in golf in high school, so it's not like I didn't have anyone motivating me to play.  But when some courses charge you like theme parks (if you're old enough to walk, pay full price) I imagine that it's hard as a father to shell out $60-70 bucks regularly, and hard as a teenager to convince your friends to shell out the cash to struggle with you.  Discounts for student foursomes can motivate friends to play/learn together, and more casual promotional days catering to students or student athletes could help spark interest.  Sure one can go to golfnow.com for discounts, but that requires knowing about that website!  It only proves the point that to play cheaper golf, you have to find loopholes.  One course around here doesn't even advertise their walking rate, which is significantly cheaper than their lowest advertised rate.  It's almost like some courses don't want to advertise a cheaper way to play golf, like it damages appearance or something.

Golf is on the right track with some of the appearance issues.  Considering that some golf shoes now are quite literally Nike Free sneakers with spikes, some of the stuffiness seems to be removed from the game in favor of a sportier appearance.  Sure, some of the stereotypes about golf put it at a disadvantage to other sports in competition for teenagers' attention.  But it needs to acknowledge it's own advantages.  Such as the fact that it is a sports equalizer...A 6'3" basketball player has no real advantage over a 5'8" soccer player.  And a much stronger football player (american football to our mates across the pond) is no better off than a much skinnier baseball pitcher.  It's something that you can do with teammates of the same sport, or with friends who are different types of athletes, or not athletes at all.  Courses investing a bit in reaching out to teenagers and their budgets could help change this image and maybe get a few more kids to say 'hey want to try playing golf?' to each other rather than relying on parents to do that.  Golf can maybe be viewed not as something rich old guys do, but rather simply a sport that any group of friends can play together.  Just my $0.02

[Foot Wedge]

First sentence sounds a bit harsh to our older members, guess I should have said the golf is viewed as a rich retired man's game since courses generally more suited to them and their budgets.  Apologies y'all.

[Vinny Cap]

4 hours ago, Kalnoky said:

When I was putting out on the 9th green a trio of old guys in windbreakers was sitting on the veranda watching me. Blatant staring - no attempt to conceal it. I smiled and waved/acknowledged them when I finished, but they remained expressionless. They just stared straight at me, as if I had pooped my pants in public. To my way of thinking, this was their way of bullying me, i.e., letting me know I was a stranger at their club. For the record, I wasn't golfing in blue jeans, wearing sandals, or doing anything out of the ordinary. They were just being a*holes, because they could.

Yes, this.  This is the attitude at one local semi private...  I believe they will have membership issues down the road as who wants to join this place???

 

21 minutes ago, caddystacks said:

First sentence sounds a bit harsh to our older members, guess I should have said the golf is viewed as a rich retired man's game since courses generally more suited to them and their budgets.  Apologies y'all.

Don't fret it.  The old cranky bastards know who they are.

[Gunther]

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 7:11 AM, RussUK said:

Not so long ago i went to visit my sister and was talking to her youngest son. He's 10 years old plays rugby, learning guitar and like most kids loves his video games. He asked me if i still played golf, i said i did, he asked me why i played so i told him that its a great game, gets you out doors and all the usual stuff.

I told him i had a spare set of clubs, and being quite tall for his age, should be ok with the short irons if he fancied going to the range to have a go.

Now the response i got was fairly expeceted but still got me thinking. He said thanks but no thanks as he thought golf was a game for "old retired people or those who have lots of money and dont have to work" and that would put him off. I argued that its a game for everyone and that many young people play such as Jordan Speith, Ricky Fowler etc. "but golf is their job uncle Russ" fair point.

Now, not all youngsters view the sport this way but how can we say we need to get more young people taking up the sport, yet still (in some cases, not all) cling to the old ways and traditions with some clubs still discriminating against the other sex, outdated membership "interviews" and confusing rules?

Can golf shake off the old stereotypes and misguided views or do we just need to accept it the way it is?

Interesting.  This has always been the case in the US but for some reason, I thought it was a little different in the UK.  I sort of had the thought that kids were brought up on the links land and most everyone played from a young age.  Guess not so much.

[Patch]

Just an observation that might fit in this topic. 

Myself and a friend were in two sports bars earlier today. (breakfast/lunch) Between the two thay were probaly 80+/- TVs going. Not one of them were tuned into the golf tournament. 

Now I would have thought, with Woody's return to tournament golf, that at least one or two TVs would have been tuned in. 

Another observation was, that we were the oldest guys in these establishments. Just about every one else were much younger than us. The TVs were tuned into espn, soccer, etc, and one was even rerunning the Cubs' 7th game. Another even had a soap opera going. (?????)

[WUTiger]

I think certain social groups view golf as elitist, but it's by no means universal.

Those among the hard left often turn up their noses at golf - an easy, low-effort to be an instant good guy among the wine and brie crowd.

Last year (can't remember which site), a graduate student in the Carolinas claimed that being asked by a faculty member to go play golf was a microaggression. How dare Professor X ask me to spend $40 on green's fees when I need to buy food!

Again, I think the avoidance is more generational - spending four hours doing anything is rare.

[natureboy]

55 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

I think certain social groups view golf as elitist, but it's by no means universal.

It has the potential to be, but it's not inherent in the sport (at least thanks to municipal and low-end mom/pop places (which have been fading a bit).

It's sort of like rifles/shotguns being a common denominator at a fancy hunting or shooting club and at a no-frills rod and gun club.

[WUTiger]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

... at least thanks to municipal and low-end mom/pop places (which have been fading a bit). ...

Seems like the small nine-hole courses are in most danger. When mom and pop retire, the kids often decide they'd rather sell the 70 acres as a housing development rather than snag green's fees at 7 AM on Saturdays. Can't really blame the younger set, they probably build non-golf lives for themselves.

[paininthenuts]

On 11/28/2016 at 1:11 PM, RussUK said:

Not so long ago i went to visit my sister and was talking to her youngest son. He's 10 years old plays rugby, learning guitar and like most kids loves his video games. He asked me if i still played golf, i said i did, he asked me why i played so i told him that its a great game, gets you out doors and all the usual stuff.

I told him i had a spare set of clubs, and being quite tall for his age, should be ok with the short irons if he fancied going to the range to have a go.

Now the response i got was fairly expeceted but still got me thinking. He said thanks but no thanks as he thought golf was a game for "old retired people or those who have lots of money and dont have to work" and that would put him off. I argued that its a game for everyone and that many young people play such as Jordan Speith, Ricky Fowler etc. "but golf is their job uncle Russ" fair point.

Now, not all youngsters view the sport this way but how can we say we need to get more young people taking up the sport, yet still (in some cases, not all) cling to the old ways and traditions with some clubs still discriminating against the other sex, outdated membership "interviews" and confusing rules?

Can golf shake off the old stereotypes and misguided views or do we just need to accept it the way it is?

Let's put it this way. A kid can play rugby or football for the price of a kit. Now compare that with a set of clubs, shoes, balls, and an annual membership. To be honest I don't know the answer. I believe that even the cheapest membership is a major expense to most people, but without clubs charging such fees they wouldn't be able to maintain the courses. On the other hand does it really matter what people think. Do we really want everyone taking up golf, because if they did we would never get on the course, and no doubt golf clubs would cash in by increasing fees even further. Golf is not elite, and the vast majority of people who play it are really nice friendly people, but if non players want to think differently, who cares ?

[newtogolf]

I think golf is thought to be elitist because that is how it's portrayed in most movies.  The stereotypical country club snob is usually cast as the antagonist and the protagonist is usually the regular guy who must overcome the snobs.  

3 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

Let's put it this way. A kid can play rugby or football for the price of a kit. Now compare that with a set of clubs, shoes, balls, and an annual membership. To be honest I don't know the answer. I believe that even the cheapest membership is a major expense to most people, but without clubs charging such fees they wouldn't be able to maintain the courses. On the other hand does it really matter what people think. Do we really want everyone taking up golf, because if they did we would never get on the course, and no doubt golf clubs would cash in by increasing fees even further. Golf is not elite, and the vast majority of people who play it are really nice friendly people, but if non players want to think differently, who cares ?

Yes if you have to go out and buy that all new it can cost a bit but...

How many people do you know that have golf clubs lying around collecting dust.  You can go to a yard sale and pick up a cheap set for $10 or go online and spend $100.  I see golf shoes all the time for less than $50, this compared to the $100+ basket ball shoes I see kids wear is hardly expensive and if they hard to, they could wear their sneakers at a muni course.  Golf balls are $12 for 24 MaxFli or RAM golf balls isn't going to break anyones bank account.  

Green fees can be expensive depending on where you live, but no one should be worrying about green fees until they spend a lot of time on the range.  

[chilepepper]

On November 28, 2016 at 5:11 AM, RussUK said:

Not so long ago i went to visit my sister and was talking to her youngest son. He's 10 years old plays rugby, learning guitar and like most kids loves his video games. He asked me if i still played golf, i said i did, he asked me why i played so i told him that its a great game, gets you out doors and all the usual stuff.

I told him i had a spare set of clubs, and being quite tall for his age, should be ok with the short irons if he fancied going to the range to have a go.

Now the response i got was fairly expeceted but still got me thinking. He said thanks but no thanks as he thought golf was a game for "old retired people or those who have lots of money and dont have to work" and that would put him off. I argued that its a game for everyone and that many young people play such as Jordan Speith, Ricky Fowler etc. "but golf is their job uncle Russ" fair point.

Now, not all youngsters view the sport this way but how can we say we need to get more young people taking up the sport, yet still (in some cases, not all) cling to the old ways and traditions with some clubs still discriminating against the other sex, outdated membership "interviews" and confusing rules?

Can golf shake off the old stereotypes and misguided views or do we just need to accept it the way it is?

   I can't speak to the UK situation but what I see here in the states isn't quite so bad.  It's true kids have lots of choices in sports/hobbies but I don't think expense is a big part of it. For the price of a game console and a game disk one can have a fair set of starter clubs. In the other sports the time commitment is still there although spread out a bit more throughout the week depending on the level they play at. A freinds daughters play soccer and one, sometime two weekend days are spent at the field. Many also get additional coaching in the off season.....for a fee. 

   In my area there are good deals to be had. One course I play charges 29 bucks a month for reduced greens fees and 2 large buckets of balls a day. After school and weekends it's not unusual to see a half dozen kids-teens on that small range. There are other deals to be had throughout our county that help make golf affordable. 

   As far as descriminatory/stodgy clubs......I'm not convinced that exists much anymore. There are a few to be sure but for most that attitude would turn them into a semi private course in short order. I just don't see the old stereotypes in my circles.

   

[paininthenuts]

7 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I think golf is thought to be elitist because that is how it's portrayed in most movies.  The stereotypical country club snob is usually cast as the antagonist and the protagonist is usually the regular guy who must overcome the snobs.  

Yes if you have to go out and buy that all new it can cost a bit but...

How many people do you know that have golf clubs lying around collecting dust.  You can go to a yard sale and pick up a cheap set for $10 or go online and spend $100.  I see golf shoes all the time for less than $50, this compared to the $100+ basket ball shoes I see kids wear is hardly expensive and if they hard to, they could wear their sneakers at a muni course.  Golf balls are $12 for 24 MaxFli or RAM golf balls isn't going to break anyones bank account.  

Green fees can be expensive depending on where you live, but no one should be worrying about green fees until they spend a lot of time on the range.  

but your forgetting that the same kid who wants £100 trainers would also insist on Ping/Callaway clubs and Nike golf shoes. Your right, golf doesn't have to be very expensive, but compared with most sports it is an extravagance. Like I said in my last thread, the last thing I want is for the sport to get more popular, because this would only mean more crowded courses and a potential rise in the cost of green fees. On the other hand if it were to elitist some people would be cashing in on that as well. I live in the UK and to be honest I think the balance is about right. I will always correct someone if they believe that the average golf course member is a rich snob, but I will rarely suggest they take up golf.