Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
iacas

USGA/R&A Introduce "Modernized" Rules

228 posts / 24619 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, MacDutch said:

Hmmm, I hope they make the rules more easy, not the game of golf. 

To me treating all water hazards the same is 'making the rules more easy', but grounding in a bunker would make the game more easy.

If they make the game more easy, it could also make a difference on course and slope rating...

This is debatable.  I'm not sure how simply being able to ground your club in a bunker would make the game easier.  The shot still has to be hit, just like before. To me, not grounding your club in a bunker is one of those rules that seems unnecessary.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Want to hide this ad? Register for free today!

20 minutes ago, 1badbadger said:

This is debatable.  I'm not sure how simply being able to ground your club in a bunker would make the game easier.  The shot still has to be hit, just like before. To me, not grounding your club in a bunker is one of those rules that seems unnecessary.  

If I can ground my club then can I take a practice swing including hitting the sand?  If so that would make playing a bunker easier for many.  Still, I'd be for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

8 hours ago, iacas said:

You could say the same thing of lies you get now. Your ball is wedged between some rocks or in a tree trunk, you take an unplayable, drop ten feet back, and are in the fairway or light rough.

No different.

In those situations it's as if the Rules consider that you've advanced your ball to point A, so paying a price to go sideways or backward is still paying a price.

Otherwise, what, you're going to have someone assess the true value of getting out of a situation? You can't, because a player can declare his ball unplayable at almost any time, for any reason.

I'm actually in favor on the declassifying bunkers or if they are to stay as hazards, they should be treated in the same way.  You should have the same options just as if you were in any other hazard.

Edit: And I consider myself a good bunker player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Part of the problem is that it will be very difficult for people who are familiar with the rules to judge the new rules on their merits; they will judge them based on comparison with the old ones.

It's also tough for people who are used to defending the rules against stupid arguments (aka the "Divot-Hole Patrol").  For those folks, simplifications that happen to make the game a bit easier - like the bunker rules - end up feeling like concessions.

I'm excited to hear about the changes. Nothing I've heard so far (putting aside the ball-in-the-woods silliness) sounds like a real negative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

39 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

If I can ground my club then can I take a practice swing including hitting the sand?  If so that would make playing a bunker easier for many.  Still, I'd be for it.

I guess I'm not sure this would hold true very often. Bunker shots are hard even for good players, I think LSW notes that Greenside Bunker playing is a SV2 skill (see page 98).  Pro's get up and down 50% of the time, I'm not sure the meter would move too far, even if everyone could take practice strokes.  Bunker shots are hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Letting one ground the club in the bunker and taking practice swings hitting the sand... I don't see those running afoul of the principles.  (Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Would grounding your club in soft sand not improve your lie?

And if this violates another Rule, would we not then require on-the-spot video to determine whether the lie was or was not improved?

I would hope the modernization helps eliminate such controversies.....

(The ball-at-rest on the green Local Rule didnt do that, because, as I understand it, you still need to establish accidental/intentional movement, as the 2 situations call for differing procedures.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh man the sand trap is going to meltdown today! I can't wait

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

11 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

I guess I'm not sure this would hold true very often. Bunker shots are hard even for good players, I think LSW notes that Greenside Bunker playing is a SV2 skill (see page 98).  Pro's get up and down 50% of the time, I'm not sure the meter would move too far, even if everyone could take practice strokes.  Bunker shots are hard.

They're hard in part because the sand itself can vary so much from day to day, course to course, and even bunker to bunker.  I think that testing the firmness and depth could provide a significant advantage, especially for better players who can take advantage, and adjust to the knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Practice swings/grounding in bunkers?  As if I didn't bitch enough about un-raked bunkers already.  That will be AWESOME.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 minute ago, David in FL said:

They're hard in part because the sand itself can vary so much from day to day, course to course, and even bunker to bunker.  I think that testing the firmness and depth could provide a significant advantage, especially for better players who can take advantage, and adjust to the knowledge.

Totally agree. I doubt they will actually  allow practice shots in bunkers. It seems pretty obvious that the scrambling rates would improve if they did. I'm not opposed to it at all but it would be very controversial on sites like this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

6 hours ago, deekay said:

Would grounding your club in soft sand not improve your lie?

They wouldn't allow that. Or haven't allowed it now.

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

Oh man the sand trap is going to meltdown today! I can't wait

I don't think so.

9 minutes ago, David in FL said:

They're hard in part because the sand itself can vary so much from day to day, course to course, and even bunker to bunker.  I think that testing the firmness and depth could provide a significant advantage, especially for better players who can take advantage, and adjust to the knowledge.

Meh. I don't agree that it will amount to a huge difference.

The new proposed Rules seem to have come out already, so…

http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rules-modernization.html

Quote

These are the proposed changes expected to have the most impact on the game and to be of most interest to golfers and those who follow the game. The 33 items covered on this page are organized into eight categories, and within each proposed change you will find the main reasons why the change is being proposed. To go directly to the proposed changes relevant to each category, click the links below.

Ball at Rest  |  Ball in Motion  |  Taking Relief  |  Areas of the Course    

Equipment  |  Playing a Ball  |  When to Play During a Round  |  Player Behavior

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Here's a list at the Golf Channel's website.

Probably the most shocking one:

 

Putting with an unattended flagstick left in the hole:

New rule: No penalty if a ball played from the putting green (or anywhere else) hits the unattended flagstick in hole.

Current rule: Loss of hole/2-stroke penalty if the ball is played from the putting green and hits the unattended flagstick in hole.

 

So does that mean I can putt with the flagstick in all the time?!?  I think that would significantly change the game/strategy.

 

EDIT:  USGA's explanation (I'm not convinced it's right):

On balance it is expected that there should be no advantage in being able to putt with the unattended flagstick in the hole:

  • In some cases the ball may strike the flagstick and bounce out of the hole when it might otherwise have been holed, and
  • In other cases the ball may hit the flagstick and finish in the hole when it might otherwise have missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Here are the big changes.

Ball at Rest

Ball in Motion

Taking Relief

Areas of the Course

Equipment

Playing a Ball

Player Behavior

 

8 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

Probably the most shocking one:

Seriously. WTF?

I wonder if that one won't survive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I love these proposals. Those that I've read so far seem like common sense to me.  I hope they do enact most of them.

Dustin Johnson will be wishing they did this a few years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I'm on the call now. Man, with the NHL trade deadline AND this coming out today, I'm going to have a lot of browser tabs open. :-)

Process began about five years ago. I'd heard much longer.

I'm going to live blog the call here.

Recognition that the Rules had become complex and were written in a dense form.

Goal was to make them easier to understand, easier to apply.

Feedback period through the rest of the year.

"Feedback and evaluation process is very important given the size and scope of the changes."

Forms available in seven languages. So I can complain in French, and finally make use of my degree. :-)

Questions period now open. That was fast. Just two opening statements.

Guy asks a question about why a ball OB or lost can't use the red hazard line method too. But now areas can be marked as "penalty areas", like trees. So water hazards are gone entirely, and now there are just "penalty areas"?

Stroke and Distance opportunities reduced. If trees are marked as a penalty area, reduces the chances of having a lost ball.

Mike Davis talking about how he wants to emphasize that this is a work in progress and they want feedback.

This guy asks if there's a plan to modernize the Decisions Book. DUH. Stupid question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I agree with some and disagree with others.  Specifically, I do not like rules where intent is a factor.  In addition to the "no penalty for accidentally moving a ball on the green", I saw two rules (moving ball deflected by equipment and touching sand) that have an exception for intent i.e., no penalty unless you intentionally did it to gain an advantage.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...