Is pace of play (or slow play) a real problem?

[b101]

Been a while since I had one of 'those' rounds, but had a couple of contrasting experiences over the last week. At Godstone GC - a local, cheap course - it took 2h15 to play nine holes as a two-ball (well, sort of. I gave up at 1h45 on the 7th green). It's a 9 hole course which seems to operate an approach of trying to maximise green fees by getting as many on the course as possible. There were always two groups per hole, often four balls and often looking for a ball, whilst waiting for others to hit before even considering their own shot. Then you'd hit the nightmare issue of those coming off the 9th green expecting to head onto the 10th tee and hitting a queue, further adding to the problems.

Then we had Rye, playing foursomes. Picked up when the hole was over, behind other groups and pace of play was incredible - 2h30 for 18 holes. You'd have pairs walking ahead anticipating where the next shot would finish whilst the other pair teed off and even had one pair teeing off on the par 3 second, whilst the other pair played their tee shot on the 3rd at the same time, before heading back to the second green to putt out. 

Apologies if any of the following comes across as snobby, but I think, in the UK, a lot of the issue stems from courses and players simply being unaware of the issue or unwilling to tackle it. At cheaper courses, golfers are uneducated about how to speed up play (we saw three players stand at the side of a fairway bunker to watch one guy hack out, before then going three separate directions to their own tee shots) and those running the courses don't care enough to deal with it. At more expensive/prestigious courses, players tend to know what to do to minimise wait times, courses realise that it's an issue and genuinely try to deal with it. There are exceptions (I've played a 5hr30 round at Woburn due to the course being backed up with four balls playing off tees that weren't suited to their ability), but it seems to hold up based on what I've played.

[birdiemobile]

23 hours ago, jetsknicks1 said:

How does people commenting right after a ball is hit slow the round down?

Thanks for the question. 4 guys sit down to eat a pizza.  Each takes a slice but they go in order and do not eat their slice until the person to the left is done with there slice and all guys are able to comment on the first guy's consumption.  after each person has had one slice then the group takes another slice of pizza and puts it on their plate.  This is repeated until the pizza is done and the guys then stand up and take hats off and shake each other's hand.

   You don't like how Pizza is consumed?  Pizza supposed to be fun?  Why are you in such a hurry to eat your pizza?    

[jetsknicks1]

On 10/27/2018 at 9:33 AM, birdiemobile said:

Thanks for the question. 4 guys sit down to eat a pizza.  Each takes a slice but they go in order and do not eat their slice until the person to the left is done with there slice and all guys are able to comment on the first guy's consumption.  after each person has had one slice then the group takes another slice of pizza and puts it on their plate.  This is repeated until the pizza is done and the guys then stand up and take hats off and shake each other's hand.

   You don't like how Pizza is consumed?  Pizza supposed to be fun?  Why are you in such a hurry to eat your pizza?    

Sorry but I don’t think that makes any sense at all. I can’t tee off until my playing partner’s ball comes to rest. I mean, you’re supposed to watch your partner’s ball anyway, right? If there’s a wayward shot, it’s much better to have 4 sets of eyes on it, instead of having to search for it.  Your example only holds water if I wait for my partner to finish the hole (eating his whole slice of pizza) before I tee off.

me saying “Good shot” or “It landed by that pine tree” does not slow down the round.

[ChetlovesMer]

Quick question related to slow play. If you are in a foursome and there's nobody in front of you. A single comes up behind you. 

Is it proper etiquette to ask the single if he/she wants to play through, or is it proper etiquette for the single to ask to play through?

My normal move is to ask if the single wants to tee off with us on this hole and then just play through from there? 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Quick question related to slow play. If you are in a foursome and there's nobody in front of you. A single comes up behind you. 

Is it proper etiquette to ask the single if he/she wants to play through, or is it proper etiquette for the single to ask to play through?

My normal move is to ask if the single wants to tee off with us on this hole and then just play through from there? 

In my opinion, its the responsibility of the "slower" group to invite the faster player to go through.  Here is what the Etiguette section of the Rules of Golf has to say

Quote

It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

However, if the single is waiting for a hole or two without being invited, its totally appropriate for him to make the request on his own.

[Vinny Cap]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Quick question related to slow play. If you are in a foursome and there's nobody in front of you. A single comes up behind you. 

Is it proper etiquette to ask the single if he/she wants to play through, or is it proper etiquette for the single to ask to play through?

My normal move is to ask if the single wants to tee off with us on this hole and then just play through from there? 

Perfect!  Your move is the right one.

I would rather you ask if I want to play through.  It can fee odd to ask if I can play through and some say no.

[CaseyD]

I have no problem at all with people playing through, I stated way before that I am in no hurry when I’m playing with my friends. But what drives me nuts is to have a single or twosome breathing down my groups neck pressuring us to offer the play through and then gee look at that, now we are waiting on them. Not saying this happens every time but when it does pisses me off. 

[David in FL]

You should never have to ask to play through. It should always be offered…

[klineka]

8 hours ago, David in FL said:

You should never have to ask to play through. It should always be offered…

That should be the case, however in my experience more often than not my buddy and I have to ask. 

[phan52]

Yesterday there was a group on one and a group on two that the starter told us were both a bit slow and he recommended that we just go out to three and get ahead of them. We did that and finished 18 holes in 3 hours and 25 minutes, had a drink at the grill and left before those two groups even finished. Golf should not take four hours to play but that is the accepted time at our club, actually 4:08.

[klineka]

8 minutes ago, phan52 said:

Yesterday there was a group on one and a group on two that the starter told us were both a bit slow and he recommended that we just go out to three and get ahead of them. 

IMO that is bad course management by the starter/ranger.

You shouldn't have to start on the third hole just because groups in front of you are slow.

The groups ahead of you should be respectful enough to let your group play through if you are quicker, and IMO, its the starter/ranger's job to enforce that. 

If I had a tee time at the same time you came off 18 and you expected to keep going and play holes 1 and 2 right away, that would irk me a bit. Depending on how busy the course is, that could back things up quite a bit.

On the other hand, 4:08 is a perfectly normal time duration for a 4-some to complete a round, and IMO shouldn't be considered slow. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by klineka

[phan52]

10 minutes ago, klineka said:

IMO that is bad course management by the starter/ranger.

You shouldn't have to start on the third hole just because groups in front of you are slow.

The groups ahead of you should be respectful enough to let your group play through if you are quicker, and IMO, its the starter/ranger's job to enforce that. 

If I had a tee time at the same time you came off 18 and you expected to keep going and play holes 1 and 2 right away, that would irk me a bit. Depending on how busy the course is, that could back things up quite a bit.

On the other hand, 4:08 is a perfectly normal time duration for a 4-some to complete a round, and IMO shouldn't be considered slow. 

We don't have tee times, it is first come. first served, and those groups were already on the course when we got to the tee box. And I totally disagree about playing through TWO groups, as that would have added at least a half hour to our round. I was perfectly happy to start on 3 and play the first two holes at the end. We often have people who start on the back nine and the rule of thumb is to rotate in with any groups that may be on the first tee. It is an accepted policy and never an issue. And sorry, 4:08 is slow. JMO. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by phan52

[klineka]

3 minutes ago, phan52 said:

And I totally disagree about playing through TWO groups, as that would have added at least a half hour to our round. 

Please explain how playing through two groups would have added at least a half hour to your round.

You catch up to a group on the tee box, ask if you can play through, they let your group hit your balls, you go to your balls and hit your next shots. That wouldnt even add 5 minutes to your round. Then when you catch up to the second group, same thing. Ask if you can play through, hit your balls, then your in the clear. I truly dont see how just the fact of playing through would add more than 30 minutes to your round.

Now if they were inconsiderate and made you wait behind them multiple holes until they finally decide to let you play through, then sure I could see how that would add time to your round, but based on how fast you stated your group played, you would have had no issue catching up with either group on a tee box and asking to play through.

10 minutes ago, phan52 said:

 And sorry, 4:08 is slow. JMO. 

Many people that have posted already in this topic disagree with you. 4 hours for a foursome is pretty much the standard, normal, accepted, pace of play at just about every golf course I've ever been to. I dont think I've ever seen a scorecard where the expected pace of play is less than 4 hours. I've certainly played rounds faster than 4 hours with a foursome, but like I said, people in this forum topic, and most golf courses agree that 4 hours is pretty much the standard pace of play.

[phan52]

12 minutes ago, klineka said:

Please explain how playing through two groups would have added at least a half hour to your round.

You catch up to a group on the tee box, ask if you can play through, they let your group hit your balls, you go to your balls and hit your next shots. That wouldnt even add 5 minutes to your round. Then when you catch up to the second group, same thing. Ask if you can play through, hit your balls, then your in the clear. I truly dont see how just the fact of playing through would add more than 30 minutes to your round.

Now if they were inconsiderate and made you wait behind them multiple holes until they finally decide to let you play through, then sure I could see how that would add time to your round, but based on how fast you stated your group played, you would have had no issue catching up with either group on a tee box and asking to play through.

Many people that have posted already in this topic disagree with you. 4 hours for a foursome is pretty much the standard, normal, accepted, pace of play at just about every golf course I've ever been to. I dont think I've ever seen a scorecard where the expected pace of play is less than 4 hours. I've certainly played rounds faster than 4 hours with a foursome, but like I said, people in this forum topic, and most golf courses agree that 4 hours is pretty much the standard pace of play.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree, particularly playing through a group. I have done it and it alway adds a lot of time ot a round. If I can get around them, that's the better option.

And I understand that 4 hours is an accepted time. I pointed out at 4;08 is the accepted time at our course. That doesn't mean it isn't slow. When the course isn't busy, any group I am in never play in more than 3:30, and usually less. We play when ready. Get to ball, hit the ball. Why should I wait to hit my ball if the guy who is away hasn't got to his ball yet? 

Like I said, JMO. Hit when ready.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

4 minutes ago, phan52 said:

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree, particularly playing through a group. I have done it and it alway adds a lot of time ot a round. If I can get around them, that's the better option.

And I understand that 4 hours is an accepted time. I pointed out at 4;08 is the accepted time at our course. That doesn't mean it isn't slow. When the course isn't busy, any group I am in never play in more than 3:30, and usually less. We play when ready. Get to ball, hit the ball. Why should I wait to hit my ball if the guy who is away hasn't got to his ball yet? 

Like I said, JMO. Hit when ready.

 

Interesting discussion. It may depend on the course. For example, The first time my group travelled out to Nevada and played Wolf Creek in Mesquite, it took us like 5 hours. It didn't feel slow. That same group playing our home track almost never took more than 3 hours to play 18. Both courses are par 72. But familiarity makes a difference and not all 72's are created equal. 

[phan52]

1 minute ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Interesting discussion. It may depend on the course. For example, The first time my group travelled out to Nevada and played Wolf Creek in Mesquite, it took us like 5 hours. It didn't feel slow. That same group playing our home track almost never took more than 3 hours to play 18. Both courses are par 72. But familiarity makes a difference and not all 72's are created equal. 

I can agree with that. The familiarity I have with my course makes me feel that four hours is too long, but there is not much I can do about it when the course is busy and they are playing at the accepted pace. It just feels a bit tedious. Example, we played last week and waited to hit on most fairways and on every par 3 tee box, but we still played in 4:05. 

[ChetlovesMer]

To be truthful Phan52 I agree with you. I play fast, my group plays fast. We play ready golf. None of us are big on practice swings. We all line up our putts when others are lining up their putts. (As long as we are not directly in each others line, obviously.) So I'm on your side when it comes to pace of play. 

One thing. A lot of players let slow play affect their game. The guys in my group will get frustrated with slow play and end up doing a lot worse. So, in a way I like slow play because it brings the field back to me. … At least that's the way I try to look at it. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Please explain how playing through two groups would have added at least a half hour to your round.

I’m with @phan52 on that one.

Playing through groups takes time. I play around groups all the time.