Is pace of play (or slow play) a real problem?

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

Here is my feeling on pace of play. Mainly for a 4sum. 4hrs-4 1/2 is perfectly fine on most courses. Any more is lil long and any less usually feels rushed. Honestly dont know why everyone cant play within the 4-4 1/2 hr frame.

I think a lot of this is relative to the course you're playing.  I know at many courses in Scotland, 3:30 is the standard time, for four players walking.  And its not that hard to do, with a well-designed course, where each  tee is close to the preceding green.   Its a different culture.  In the US, I'd hope to see play in 4 hours or less generally.  The biggest problem are the players at either end of the spectrum.  Its unrealistic to expect to play in 3 hours with a fourball, at least in the US, so to have that in your head at the start of a round is certain to lead to hard feelings.  Similarly, someone who expects to take a relaxed 5 hours is going to cause hard feelings for the groups he holds up.  

[ev780]

Ahhhhhh yes! Now that the weather is breaking and people are getting out to play, winter threads give way to the inevitable POP threads. 

We should have an annual pool on how many posts in the various threads.

[dennyjones]

16 minutes ago, ev780 said:

We should have an annual pool on how many posts in the various threads.

 

 

6!

[dave s]

MOST rounds I play on weekends with the boys takes 4 to 4.5 hours to complete.  4.5 hours is more normal than anything less, actually.

At the 4.5 hour pace we're not waiting on the group in front or being pushed from the group behind us.  I enjoy that pace just fine.  Tee off around 8:30 - 9:00am on a Saturday and home around 2pm depending on distance from course to home.

dave

[iacas]

23 hours ago, CMartis said:

Is three hours walking possible? I've only played around 6 rounds but it seems like it's always been about 4 hours. That's on a cart. 

I played in a twosome the other day in 2:30. 3:00 is possible but not super likely. 3:30 is eminently possible.

---

I added a poll, everyone. Yes, pace of play is a big problem.

[Chilli Dipper]

I played 18 holes in under 3:30 as part of a twosome last week, and I couldn't believe we had played so fast. We weren't rushing; we had even stopped to let a single play through at one point. It makes me think of where the time goes on the 4:30 rounds.

[Jakester23]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I played in a twosome the other day in 2:30. 3:00 is possible but not super likely. 3:30 is eminently possible. 

 Do you think ability level has something to do with how long it takes? A few of my buddies would be hard pressed to make 330 just based on how many shots it takes. Or at least that's how it feels. 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Jakester23 said:

 Do you think ability level has something to do with how long it takes? A few of my buddies would be hard pressed to make 330 just based on how many shots it takes. Or at least that's how it feels. 

A little.

I routinely played 18 holes my first year playing, walking, in 2:30 too. I was in the 90s then.

Fast players are faster, period.

I'd rather play with fast-playing guys who barely break 100 than slow playing guys who break 75. Unless the first group also talks about how they'd be scratch if they could have a better mental game, that is.

[Jakester23]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

A little.

I routinely played 18 holes my first year playing, walking, in 2:30 too. I was in the 90s then.

Fast players are faster, period.

I'd rather play with fast-playing guys who barely break 100 than slow playing guys who break 75. Unless the first group also talks about how they'd be scratch if they could have a better mental game, that is.

Ha ha very true and funny. I don't really play with anyone who I consider slow. A few practice swings and go even if they are let's say allergic to the center of the club face.

[Aflighter]

Something intetesting happened couple weeks ago.Me and a friend went to play  a short 6000 yard course with small greens.We teed off at 8am with nobody in front of us. We were thru 15 holes when guy in clubhouse sent out a tournament  starting at 10am.He put all of them in front of us 16-whatever.We played 15 holes in lil over 2 hrs.We had to quit because my friend had to go to work at noon.It wouldve took an hour to play last 3. We went in clubhouse to let guy know that wasnt right because there were 5 holes empty behind us they couldve started on.Here lies the problem, his answer was "well I didnt expect you guys to be so far in just 2 hrs". I said well its just 2 of us on a short course. He did give us a 9 hole raincheck so we got something.

[ZappyAd]

It seems to me that everyone has their own opinion on how long a round 'should' take.  The problem is that out on the course, slowest guy wins.  

I think it is down to the individual courses to manage.  If a five hour round is the norm at a course then that should be made clear before you start out and/or book.  I think one of the biggest problems with pace of play is the difference between expectation and experience.  If courses did more to inform players of the reality before playing then there would be less frustration.

[Jakester23]

3 hours ago, ZappyAd said:

It seems to me that everyone has their own opinion on how long a round 'should' take.  The problem is that out on the course, slowest guy wins.  

I think it is down to the individual courses to manage.  If a five hour round is the norm at a course then that should be made clear before you start out and/or book.  I think one of the biggest problems with pace of play is the difference between expectation and experience.  If courses did more to inform players of the reality before playing then there would be less frustration.

I also think booking tee time so close together causes some of this. I understand the courses are doing it to make more money but it sure does bog down your pace of play. There is a place close to home that books tee times 8 mins apart. Needless to say I don't play there very often. A few years ago it took us 5 and a half hours to play 15 holes on Memorial day.

[406pat]

On 3/17/2017 at 10:32 AM, ZappyAd said:

It seems to me that everyone has their own opinion on how long a round 'should' take.  The problem is that out on the course, slowest guy wins.  

I think it is down to the individual courses to manage.  If a five hour round is the norm at a course then that should be made clear before you start out and/or book.  I think one of the biggest problems with pace of play is the difference between expectation and experience.  If courses did more to inform players of the reality before playing then there would be less frustration.

The two biggest problems that I see when pace of play is discussed are the assumptions that it's always the players fault and that 18 holes should take the same amount of time regardless of where they are played. The two go hand in hand as well. There's way to much variability in golf to say that every course should have the same max play time. Part of the course managing their pace of play is understanding what their pace of play actually is! A course is a system influenced by architecture, weather, players, course operations, and countless other variables. But rather than try to understand what to expect out of an individual course and how it's actually used, the default is to expect a 4 hour round and blame players for anything more. A country club with low handicappers and 15 minute intervals is not going to have the same pace of play issues as a muni course sending 4 duffers out every 7 minutes is. 

On 3/17/2017 at 1:52 PM, Jakester23 said:

I also think booking tee time so close together causes some of this. I understand the courses are doing it to make more money but it sure does bog down your pace of play. There is a place close to home that books tee times 8 mins apart. Needless to say I don't play there very often. A few years ago it took us 5 and a half hours to play 15 holes on Memorial day.

There's a local course that has par times for each hole listed as well as for all 18 holes. They range from 12 - 17 minutes. However, if you sum up all of the par times on the holes, it's about 20 minutes greater than the stated par time for 18 holes! Also, they use 8 minute tee time intervals, but list the par time for most par threes as 12-14 minutes. According to their own numbers, it's impossible for a full tee sheet playing at the expected pace to not back up on every single par 3. It happens every weekend and rather than trying to adjust the intervals or leave gaps, they continue to blame slow play. It's a given that unless you're in the first 6 or so groups, a round on Saturday or Sunday is going to take at least 5 hours.

[Fourputt]

My home course put up pace of play clocks a couple of years ago, and it seems to be helping with the idea of what the pace should be.  There are 3 clocks on each side, and they are set so that when you get to that tee, the time shown should be your starting time or earlier - no need to try and remember any 2nd grade math to figure it out.  

If the time on the clock is later than your starting time, then you are behind the pace and should make every effort to catch up, if possible (meaning that the group in front is not holding you up).  This way all the ranger has to do is point at the clock and a group has no justifiable excuse.  It has made players much more aware of pace of play expectations, and in most groups there is at least one player who will comment on it when they fall behind.

[oregongolfguy]

I rarely feel rushed.  But i am a fast player based on what i see around me on the courses.  I think the course does play a part in it.  Courses that have long distances between green to next tee definitely take longer to play.  Some courses that have alot of big hazards can make it longer also.  

  When i play in a 4 some with my boss and a few other managers at private club we usually play in about 3hrs walking or riding.  its always empty in front of us.  All 4 of us are reasonably quick players that play ready golf.  We visit alot and have a good time out there, we just seem to move along at a good pace.  The course helps in that its a short walk green to next tee box.  Easy walking course and laid out user friendly in that way..

  The muni that i play alot is usually 4+hrs.  Honestly when it starts pushing out towards 4.5hrs or so it starts to be a drag.  I'm not a huge fan of constantly waiting.  

  I used to be in a mens club and played club events.  But i stopped because the 5+hr rounds were killing me.  All those guys have played the course plenty of times, shouldnt take that long to read putts or decide club off the tee etc.     

[Kalnoky]

13 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

My home course put up pace of play clocks a couple of years ago, and it seems to be helping with the idea of what the pace should be.  There are 3 clocks on each side, and they are set so that when you get to that tee, the time shown should be your starting time or earlier - no need to try and remember any 2nd grade math to figure it out.  

If the time on the clock is later than your starting time, then you are behind the pace and should make every effort to catch up, if possible (meaning that the group in front is not holding you up).  This way all the ranger has to do is point at the clock and a group has no justifiable excuse.  It has made players much more aware of pace of play expectations, and in most groups there is at least one player who will comment on it when they fall behind.

What a fantastic idea

[bkuehn1952]

I don't mind pace of play threads.  I tend to tune out when there is any discussion about how fast one played as a single, twosome or threesome, using a cart or going out as the first group.  Like it or not, the standard for golf is a 4-some, walking or riding.  Discussions should be about getting a 4-some around a course in a proper pace.

Frankly, I rarely see any new or interesting suggestions concerning pace and courses full of 4-somes but there is the occasional tidbit so I keep reading the threads.

[David in FL]

11 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I don't mind pace of play threads.  I tend to tune out when there is any discussion about how fast one played as a single, twosome or threesome, using a cart or going out as the first group.  Like it or not, the standard for golf is a 4-some, walking or riding.  Discussions should be about getting a 4-some around a course in a proper pace.

Frankly, I rarely see any new or interesting suggestions concerning pace and courses full of 4-somes but there is the occasional tidbit so I keep reading the threads.

I agree.  It's really pretty simple, and needn't be over complicated.