Transition from One Priority to the Next

[JonMA1]

When a student has begun to make progress on their priority piece, how do they continue to ingrain the feel of doing that piece correctly (or continue improvement on it) while starting on the next? Does practice consist of different phases.... old piece/new piece? Or should they not move on to the next until the success is fully ingrained? 

Progress is unfamiliar territory to me.

[Hatchman]

Working on your own, with and instructor, Evolvr, etc?

[Wanzo]

I think you need the first priority to be fully ingrained, where you can do it without any (or very little) thought. For me, when my  instructor said it's time for the next priority, which so far has only really been once, I still try to do the old drills and feels for a couple mins to start each practice session.  Maybe that's just for my peace of mind and it will go away over time I assume. But I would guess that far too many people move on from their priority before they should. That definitely used to be me, if I even had a priority . I would defer to your instructor on when to move on and helping you determine if it's fully ingrained. 

[JonMA1]

29 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Working on your own, with and instructor, Evolvr, etc?

Working on my own - and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

9 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

I think you need the first priority to be fully ingrained, where you can do it without any (or very little) thought. For me, when my  instructor said it's time for the next priority, which so far has only really been once, I still try to do the old drills and feels for a couple mins to start each practice session.  Maybe that's just for my peace of mind and it will go away over time I assume. But I would guess that far too many people move on from their priority before they should. That definitely used to be me, if I even had a priority . I would defer to your instructor on when to move on and helping you determine if it's fully ingrained. 

Progress is minimal and definitely not yet ingrained. While it's repeatable, I don't want to backslide.

I think your advice is sound, at least for the time being.

[Hatchman]

@JonMA1 your awareness in good then.  How do/would you know your piece is engrained then?  What feedback are you using?  Just ideas.  :)

[JonMA1]

Just now, Hatchman said:

How do/would you know your piece is engrained then?  What feedback are you using?  Just ideas.  :)

I'd guess with video over a longer time period would be necessary to know it's ingrained. As far as feedback, there are a few thoughts and feels that I'm associating with the video - but those can be misleading.

If the video looks good and I'm able to execute the priority with little effort over a long period of time, I'd think that would be an indication that another weakness needs attention. Right?

As far as my next priority, I have an idea of what that will/should be. I'm obviously not an expert and working on the wrong thing could be counter-productive. For me, this is when a good instructor would be most beneficial.

[dennyjones]

Interesting question and one I've encountered in my journey to improve.  Two years ago when I was taking weekly lessons, I experienced the same situation.   I had signed up for 8 lessons over 8 weeks and when the 7th lesson arrived, I'd forgotten the basics we covered in the first two lessons.    My instructor spent the last two lessons repeating the previous lessons.   The backsliding is real unless the the training is really second nature.     This is why practice is as important as playing.   

[Hatchman]

26 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I'd guess with video over a longer time period would be necessary to know it's ingrained. As far as feedback, there are a few thoughts and feels that I'm associating with the video - but those can be misleading.

If the video looks good and I'm able to execute the priority with little effort over a long period of time, I'd think that would be an indication that another weakness needs attention. Right?

As far as my next priority, I have an idea of what that will/should be. I'm obviously not an expert and working on the wrong thing could be counter-productive. For me, this is when a good instructor would be most beneficial.

I agree 100%.  There are keys to good ball striking and building a repeatable swing with fairy predictable and intuitable outcomes.  Or shall I say the other way around.  I am in my journey as well...taking on this interesting and fun sport.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

When a student has begun to make progress on their priority piece, how do they continue to ingrain the feel of doing that piece correctly (or continue improvement on it) while starting on the next?

They don't. If the feel isn't ingrained to a certain extent then they should not move on. It can get tricky on when to judge that level. That is where a good instructor can help there.

[billchao]

It gets automatic, in a sense. When you've truly ingrained a change, you don't have to think about making that move and you do it.

There's no good way to tell exactly when that happens IME, it just kind of does on its own as you continue to practice and play. One day you realize your misses are a little different or better than before. Perhaps you notice you're hitting good shots more often than before.

I use video almost every time I practice and sometimes I'll see something and think, "oh when did I stop doing that?" It's why I like to start my practice by filming a "raw" swing: I want to see what my natural (on course) swing will look like when I'm not focused on making exaggerated movements. 

[RandallT]

3 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

When a student has begun to make progress on their priority piece, how do they continue to ingrain the feel of doing that piece correctly (or continue improvement on it) while starting on the next? Does practice consist of different phases.... old piece/new piece? Or should they not move on to the next until the success is fully ingrained? 

Progress is unfamiliar territory to me.

I recently moved from backswing pieces near the top (left wrist, elbow positioning, etc) to the downswing steepness and club path. Wow, that "transition" from one priority to another is interesting! I miss my old practice!!! I had been doing backswing things for a LOOOOOOONG time. I'm almost a fish out of water thinking about the downswing.

I find that as I work on the new priority that my comfort zone is still checking out my old pieces. But I just need to let go.  

So I don't know the answer, as it's likely different for each of us- but I can say that for me, I've been doing something for long enough that it's almost automatic to check my old priority as I work on the new. The knowledge keeps building. For me, I need to just let my old piece be automatic and fully dedicate myself to the new. I should just let my instructor bust me if I'm backsliding on the old stuff.

[nevets88]

With constant monitoring via video. IME, I have "undone" previous pieces learned because doing new pieces, but all my instructors have told me I overdo what they ask. But the good news is you've learned it before so you'll get it back doubly as fast and your feel ain't real radar improves. Sometimes if I regress on an old piece, it may be that I didn't "understand" what the instructor was going for completely. Or maybe I have a new set of feels, so a different mental thought to get back the old piece is needed. This is why you just don't "get good" and you never have to visit a pro again. It's a continuous stream of self awareness and learning. In a way, it's look shooting. You miss right, adjust left, then adjust right until you hit target.

tl;dr - trust the move is baked in but monitor closely, keep on w/the lessons, not a big deal to relearn/readjust.

[JonMA1]

I think everyone is saying the same thing... it takes a while for improvement to become part of the swing.... natural... automatic. And it isn't like the improvement I've made is close to where it should be. On a scale of 1-5 (5 being perfect), all I've done is gone from a negative value to a .25 on this key. So more work is needed.

But I'll take even a small move forward over staying where I was. And as others have said, the backslide will happen if I don't continue to work at this.

To accomplish this move right now, I have to focus hard on a few new things AND stop thinking about hitting the ball in such a way that I feel will produce a good shot - this seems to be my nemesis. It's like I have to learn this move first and foremost, and then let the "good shot" thoughts catch up later, if that makes sense.

I can't speak for others, but I was able to hit greens with a very crappy swing for the last couple years. Now, if what I see as improvement really is, I'll have to learn to hit greens with a new, slightly less crappy swing.

2 hours ago, nevets88 said:

your feel ain't real radar improves

My new favorite expression.

Yeah, video really exposes feel ain't real. While filming yesterday, I made a comment to the camera (I'll do this sometimes) that I felt my hips slide backwards. When I reviewed the video, they hadn't.

 

Thank you everyone for the advice. I hope this helps others.

[Let it Fly]

On 3/18/2017 at 11:14 AM, nevets88 said:

instructors have told me I overdo what they ask

Imagine this could be a common occurrence for many people who are working to make positive/progressive swing changes...I've also experienced it.  At the point I realized I'd over-done an aspect of the priority and just wasn't "getting it", I knew I had to go back to see my instructor about it.  I was a little frustrated with myself having to re-visit many of the same aspects of a previous lesson, but it was better than continuing in the wrong direction with the piece.  

[JonMA1]

Damn, this is harder than I thought.

I've taken a lot of video in the last few days and have seen very few instances of regression. So that's good. But what is difficult is continuing to ignore all those other faults that keep showing up - something I'd successfully done for the last 6 months while concentrating solely on key #2.

I'm now wondering if I should put away the camera and work on consistent contact and accuracy (while continuing work on my priority). The season is about to begin and I can't afford to start obsessing about something else.

[iacas]

On 3/18/2017 at 6:53 AM, JonMA1 said:

When a student has begun to make progress on their priority piece, how do they continue to ingrain the feel of doing that piece correctly (or continue improvement on it) while starting on the next?

If you still have to work on the old piece to do it right, it shouldn't be the "old" piece, and there should be no "next" piece yet.

On 3/18/2017 at 7:32 AM, Wanzo said:

But I would guess that far too many people move on from their priority before they should.

QFT.

[JonMA1]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

If you still have to work on the old piece to do it right, it shouldn't be the "old" piece, and there should be no "next" piece yet.

Point taken. I am going to take everyone's advice on this. It's becoming apparent how easy it is to fall back (no pun intended) when I don't think about getting weight to the lead foot.

So this seems to be where an instructor would really be beneficial - at least for me. It's virtually impossible to know when improvement is good enough to make it no longer the most damaging of my many faults.

When you say to do it "right", I will never get to the point where I look like a tour pro with this or any key. However, there is improvement and I can see getting to the point where this little bit of success may become unconscious. I just always assumed there were different levels of competence.

I don't mind working on this for the entire 2017 season and beyond - if that's what it takes for the improvement to stick and even get better.

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

When you say to do it "right", I will never get to the point where I look like a tour pro with this or any key. However, there is improvement and I can see getting to the point where this little bit of success may become unconscious. I just always assumed there were different levels of competence.

I mean do it to the point where something else becomes the priority. But not if you still have to think about it…