Challenge - Flagstick Out/In Putting

[David in FL]

41 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm throwing out those results.

C'mon. That's not a fair trial.

Now I need clarification...

I don't know that I've ever seen a putting green with full sized flagsticks.  Are you now asking that only those that can conduct their testing on an actual green, with actual flagsticks, perform the tests and submit their results?

[mvmac]

Played a few holes today and got a chance to do the challenge.

Flagstick OUT: 17/24, 70% made from 4-5 feet around the hole.

Flagstick IN: 21/24, 87% made from 4-5 feet around the hole.

Results are in agreement with other testing I've done. Basically holing the putt with the flagstick in requires less skill with a better chance of it going in.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I imagine he fully intends to. He specified in the OP that he wanted people to not use putting green flagsticks.

Technically he said ideally, but some practice green flagsticks can be pretty close to the on course ones. Others, of the super narrow variety like you described, are not.

This.

There are lots of practice greens with thicker little flagsticks.

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

Now I need clarification...

I don't know that I've ever seen a putting green with full sized flagsticks.  Are you now asking that only those that can conduct their testing on an actual green, with actual flagsticks, perform the tests and submit their results?

No. Just don't use those tiny thin sticks. That's almost like not having them at all.

[gmohr]

Well here is my report from yesterday.  Again, 36 putts with and 36 putts without with enough power that it would go the distance requested past the hole.  I practiced that until I was consistently within half a foot.  So here are the results:

1st 12 putts without the stick:  9 of 12:   1st 12 putts with the stick:       9 of 12:  2nd 12 putts without the stick: 10 of 12:  2nd 12 putts with the stick:        7of 12: 3rd 12 putts without the stick:   11 of 12: 3rd 12 putts with the stick         10 of 12.

Those that missed were off to the left and bounced off the rim and went 4'-5' past the hole.  Those that bounced off the stick went a little further.  About 5'-7' past the hole.  I will let the experts determine what this means.  But it is making me pay more attention to the line as the stick really screws up my alignment.

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, gmohr said:

Those that missed were off to the left and bounced off the rim and went 4'-5' past the hole.  Those that bounced off the stick went a little further.  About 5'-7' past the hole.  I will let the experts determine what this means.  But it is making me pay more attention to the line as the stick really screws up my alignment.

The ball hitting the flagstick is not going to add energy/speed to the golf ball. So I'm not sure that makes much sense.

Also, did you hit all the putts from the same place? Why were you left with every putt that missed?

[No Mulligans]

Just an FYI, here is the flagstick width at the practice green I did the challenge on:

 

[iacas]

Thanks.

So what I will say now is that you basically couldn't bring yourself to hit the ball on the right line with a little more pace. 4' past is not much more speed than you should be putting balls anyway.

True statement?

---

Also… to all…

Enjoy…

[No Mulligans]

36 minutes ago, iacas said:

Thanks.

So what I will say now is that you basically couldn't bring yourself to hit the ball on the right line with a little more pace. 4' past is not much more speed than you should be putting balls anyway.

True statement?

---

Also… to all…

Enjoy…

I go for hitting 1' past, maybe I should reconsider that.  With the faster putt, the read may be difficult to me, and a longer stroke may lead to more inaccuracies, and the target is smaller with a faster speed... and the sample size is small.

Edited March 22, 2017 by No Mulligans

[gmohr]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

The ball hitting the flagstick is not going to add energy/speed to the golf ball. So I'm not sure that makes much sense.

Also, did you hit all the putts from the same place? Why were you left with every putt that missed?

Yes, they were all hit from the same place at what I thought was the same pace.  I took approximately 30-45seconds per putt.  Those I missed were too the left.  Now I say the ones were 5-7 feet.  They may have been between 5' and 6'.  While I guess they might have been struck a little firmer I did use the same timing.  Tick, tock.  I can tell you only what my experience was.  I used the same green to putt on as the time before.  Normally when I miss I am no more than 6"- 2' past and generally just off the rim.  Anything else you would like me to try?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, gmohr said:

Yes, they were all hit from the same place at what I thought was the same pace.

The directions say to hit them from all 12 clock positions, not hit 12 putts from the same place.

[gmohr]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

The directions say to hit them from all 12 clock positions, not hit 12 putts from the same place.

Okay... I see we had a small failure to understand each other.  I placed them all at the 12 o'clock position based on my gps.  I see what you meant was to put 12 balls around the hole in the 12 hourly positions.  Okay.  No biggie as the green is fairly flat.  I can go and do this again tomorrow.  If nothing else it is improving my putting. 

[No Mulligans]

1 hour ago, gmohr said:

Okay... I see we had a small failure to understand each other.  I placed them all at the 12 o'clock position based on my gps.  I see what you meant was to put 12 balls around the hole in the 12 hourly positions.  Okay.  No biggie as the green is fairly flat.  I can go and do this again tomorrow.  If nothing else it is improving my putting. 

You might want to reread the original post of this thread.

You want to find a green with some break, that's part of the instructions.  About 3% slope.  Putting with more speed and taking out the break or part of the break is one of the advantages of leaving the flag in and is an important part of the test/challenge.

Edited March 23, 2017 by No Mulligans

[gmohr]

7 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

You might want to reread the original post of this thread.

You want to find a green with some break, that's part of the instructions.  About 3% slope.  Putting with more speed and taking out the break or part of the break is one of the advantages of leaving the flag in and is an important part of the test/challenge.

Thanks for the suggestion but I HAVE read and reread the instructions in the original post.  As to the 3% slope, where I play there is slope to almost all of the greens.  3% here is considered fairly flat.  Since it has been determined that my data is not useful then I will forego any further testing as I would not want to upset the data being captured any further.

[Vinsk]

On 3/23/2017 at 6:46 AM, gmohr said:

I will forego any further testing as I would not want to upset the data being captured any further.

Well, no need to do that. Just do the experiment properly.?

[jackieboymckenzie7501]

Flag stick in 11/12

flag stick out 12/12

not much of a difference

[Rulesman]

Did you 12 in then 12 out or alternate 1 in 1 out?

[parman]

Just leave the rules alone. There are a lots more things that can be done to speed up play than mess with the flag rule. Aggressive marshals would be this first thing I would add to the course. That would speed up play more than a flag stick change. JMHO.