Lexi Thompson's 4 Stroke Penalty at the ANA

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, bpburner said:

Can you name another sport in which the highest level athlete can't tell you that they broke the rule OR EVEN UNDERSTAND THE RULING and on top of it all be penalized day(s) later for the infraction. 

a) She knew that she breached the rule.

b) She understands the rule.

c) Ask Lance Armstrong.

[bpburner]

Just now, David in FL said:

a) She knew that she breached the rule.

b) She understands the rule.

c) Ask Lance Armstrong.

A) "She knew..." that's exactly why she said you're kidding me"  What competitive edge did she gain on a sub 2' putt? 

B) I agree she knows the rule,,, when was the last time you were a 1/2" - 1" off in your placement or better yet when was that last time you drove +2 over the speed limit hell in this comparison when was the last time you drove .25mph over the speed limit. 

C) Evidently other sport references aren't ever relevant in this topic so sorry doesn't qualify

[Jack Watson]

Retroactive penalties should be avoided for several key reasons already listed above 

I don't see anything in the rules of golf defining when a competition is closed

 

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, bpburner said:

Can you name another sport in which the highest level athlete can't tell you that they broke the rule OR EVEN UNDERSTAND THE RULING and on top of it all be penalized day(s) later for the infraction. 

It's a very simple rule. to pretend that it's some super complex thing that's difficult to understand… is disingenuous.

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Retroactive penalties should be avoided for several key reasons already listed above 

I don't see anything in the rules of golf defining when a competition is closed

Look harder?

The first sentence in 34-1b says "In stroke play, a penalty must not be rescinded, modified or imposed after the competition has closed." It goes on to say that the rare cases where a player really cheated (knowingly violated the rules but didn't add the penalty strokes) can the player be DQed after the close of competition. It's almost never needed.

[sac1]

2 minutes ago, bpburner said:

A) "She knew..." that's exactly why she said you're kidding me"  What competitive edge did she gain on a sub 2' putt? 

B) I agree she knows the rule,,, when was the last time you were a 1/2" - 1" off in your placement or better yet when was that last time you drove +2 over the speed limit hell in this comparison when was the last time you drove .25mph over the speed limit. 

C) Evidently other sport references aren't ever relevant in this topic so sorry doesn't qualify

So you think that Lexi thought it was ok to move the ball by as much as she did?  Or she couldnt remember doing it because she does it so often and no-one has noticed........just a thought for the moment!

Does it matter whether she gained an advantage or not?, "hell lets move it five foot to the left over here, its still a 45 foot putt - no difference".......@#$

I would argue there was a reason she moved it and that was to avoid something on the line or beneath the ball, but even if not, there is an obligation if one removes the ball to put it back in the correct spot.

She has got the benefit of the doubt and not been assessed as deliberately doing it, best possible outcome and a warning to others for the future.

[sac1]

30 minutes ago, bpburner said:

Like I said in my original argument I would love to follow anyone with high def cameras for 72 holes and see how close they place their ball to the original mark or whatever other penalties I can come up 

 

Outside of saying your argument is completely bias and wrong I will just say there aren't too many situations in which she couldn't make a less than 2' putt.

Nope its not about needing technology to spot a leaf moving or a grain of sand being disturbed or a ball not being replaced to 1/10 of an inch, no high def cameras were needed to see the infringement, just that no-one was watching closely at the time and/or failed to say something.  This infraction would have been easily observed by anyone who was close by watching proceedings.  

 

Couldn't miss a 2 foot putt, well it was missable enough in Lexi's eyes to pick up the ball for whatever reasons and replace it........would she have done that if it was hanging on the lip?

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by sac1
clarification

[zero]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

No they don't.

Comparisons to other sports are pointless.

I don't agree. Lexi violated the rules and failed in her responsibility. The committee was obligated to act.

Lexi was not the victim. She was the perpetrator.

I agree that it seemed like carelessness, not intentional cheating.

This is where you lose me. If it's carelessness and you can't prove intent, then she did not sign an incorrect scorecard and should have only been penalized 2 strokes. The scorecard was correct by everyone's standards at the time she signed it. Then, the next day, it was changed. She didn't sign it the next day... she signed it when it was correct. 

[Shooting29]

I've kept up with this thread all day. Read all 20 pages, I can safely say there are two camps and both are represented by this gif

[Hatchman]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

FWIW I was neither fat nor in my underwear on April 12, 2013.

What happened?  

[Shorty]

3 hours ago, bpburner said:

A) "She knew..." that's exactly why she said you're kidding me"  What competitive edge did she gain on a sub 2' putt? 

 

Possibly making it rather than missing it?

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Shorty said:

You are correct. Many of the people who think she was robbed think that important rules are just the ones that they recognise. 

The LPGA has no business stating that it was not deliberate. How could they? They are not Lexi. That was just PR and all the PGA and LPGA players tweeting are just sucking up. OK if they have a beef with phone ins, but the fact of the matter is that she did something very silly and everything else follows that. She is NOT the victim. What is totally frustrating to me is that everyone who knows nothing about golf thinks that this awesome girl was robbed of a tournament because she accidentally moved her ball a millimetre. 

Don't feel bad because you thought a spade  was a spade that didn't like consequences being applied to her.

At best it was a really really dumb transgression. It won't happen again.

 

Her reaction was typical of people who have been exposed cheating and fear that their reputation will suffer. It's called panic. I do feel sorry for her, though.

You can't possibly know intent from 8000 miles away just as Johnny Miller can't possibly know the read of a putt from a mile away in a booth. You have a right to your opinion, but being absolutely positive about something makes it a bit suspect.

8 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Great point you nasty hedgehog!

imagine if my proposed rule were true...That would be a non issue.

Each round HAS to be SEPERATE.

I am sure there are many scenarios we have not thought of yet!

great thoughts badger

I know you are passionate about this, but please be careful in your responses. Insults are not tolerated.

7 hours ago, Dege said:

Iacas,  Wow man, you REALLY need to get a life.  If you have time to pull all those quotes together, "crush" each comment with razor sharp reasoning, destroy any other view point other than your own.  And STILL be wrong, wow.  Hats off.  As for Lexi, I don't have time to figure it out now because I was watching a rerun of Arnold Palmer and when I email in what I saw Arnie do, the King's gonna have one less victory......

See the comment above.

[RH31]

 

8 hours ago, ChrisP said:

When a football player fumbles, you don't have fans calling up saying, "Hey he fumbled. Review it!" That's what officials are for. Or when a tennis player foot faults and it's not called, a fan can't call up and say "Hey I have an angle that shows he foot faulted. Penalize him."

Personally, I hate people calling in and effecting the outcome of tournaments. If the officials don't catch it, then they don't catch it. Like someone mentioned above, they should have officials in tents checking this stuff themselves, not allowing fat men in their underwear calling in on Tiger Woods or Lexi Thompson or whoever and getting them penalized. This is something that needs to be handled by the officials of the game, not spectators from home.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with your sentiment, but it won't work. A simple video review of what Lexi did may not have turned up anything. Heck, we were shown the clip magnified and in slow motion and even then people have different opinions about what transpired. They certainly couldn't/didn't catch such a minor rules infraction in real time review and can't review every situation in slo mo, over and over and over.

7 hours ago, Shorty said:

In 45 years of golf I can say with certainty that I have never even been close to misaligning my ball after marking it due to distraction.  Now that's not to say that I haven't done exactly what Lexi did in a casual round when I'm on top of a poorly repaired pitch mark. Half an inch to an inch is a hell of a long way.

Then again, in your 45 years of golf, you've never been leading a major tournament professional tournament and marked for a 1-2 foot putt. Big difference in atmosphere, things might not be so clear and easy.

 

We all have our opinions about what went on and how it was handled. I don't know how anybody could think that this situation is good for the game though. Just another black eye for an already struggling sport/game.

[14ledo81]

Am I the only one that does not consider it a "black eye" for the sport?  On the contrary, I find it admirable that, when faced with a hard decision, they made the right one.  If they would have let it slide, and that would have been found out, it would have been way worse.

I get that it sucks that it went down this way, but I put the blame on Lexi.  If she had not moved her ball 3/4'', none of this would have happened.

Again my question to those upset about the viewer calling in.  If the rules official had seen it himself on a replay and noticed it would you have been fine?  If the rules official had overheard someone talking about it and looked it over again, would that have been fine?  If the rules official's wife had mentioned it to him, and he looked it over again, would that have been fine?  Where do you draw the line?

The way I see it, once the rules officials had the information (regardless of where it came from), they absolutely had to act on it.

[JonMA1]

3 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Am I the only one that does not consider it a "black eye" for the sport?

No, you're not the only one. It doesn't bother me in the least and I think they did what they had to do, based on the current rules. I'll continue to watch the LPGA every chance I get. 

If this were a South Korean born player, the only outrage would be on how dishonest the player was.

Lexi is an incredible athlete and she seems to be a class act. But the rules still apply.

[krupa]

17 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Am I the only one that does not consider it a "black eye" for the sport?  On the contrary, I find it admirable that, when faced with a hard decision, they made the right one.  If they would have let it slide, and that would have been found out, it would have been way worse.

Agreed.  It would have been much worse had they reviewed things and decided "it's not that bad" and let it go.  Rules and penalties have to be applied objectively to ensure they are applied fairly. 

[roamin]

5 hours ago, zero said:

The scorecard was correct by everyone's standards at the time she signed it.

No, the scorecard was incorrect the second the incorrect score was written down for that hole. Not calling or knowing about an infraction does not change the correct score for the hole.

5 hours ago, zero said:

Then, the next day, it was changedcorrected.

FTFY. 

5 hours ago, zero said:

she signed it when it was correct

Again, it was not correct. I agree that it sucks (if she didn't realize she did it), but it happened.

[Vinsk]

8 hours ago, sac1 said:

Golf we can't put refs everywhere

Yes we can. Apparently anyone watching the tournament is a referee. Be it from the other side of the globe or on the tee box. Of course if you're leading the tournament or are popular you'll be under heavier observation than the not. Sure, seems fair and logical.

[chilepepper]

No need for rules officials on the course anymore. Tournament organizers can just have viewers phone it the votes on infractions, real or perceived, kind of like voting on dancing with the stars.