Hank Haney questions Bernhard Langer's Putting

[Wally Fairway]

43 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

I've always wondered but nobody could give a good answer. I wondered why more broomstick putters didn't follow suit.

I'd like to see one of the "stats" site or geeks go back and show finishes and putting by the long putters - comparing how they did with the long putter and how they are doing since changing.
I understand that it there are more than one variable in the change - hell look how Spieth did the week he changed short sticks.

[Golfingdad]

22 minutes ago, Patch said:

I sometimes golf with a guy who does what Langer seems to be doing. Although the hand at the top of the club is not touching his chest, his inside fore arm of his top hand is pressed against his side for stability. He plays in a few sanctioned events, and his stroke has been deemed legal by ruling party in charge. 

If the bold is truly accurate, then I believe that the ruling party in charge is making a mistake in letting him putt like that.  As @coachjimsc posted upthread, one of the notes of the rule states that anchor points are prohibited and are defined as:

Note 2: An "anchor point" exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club.

So if the forearm is being used to stabilize, it doesn't matter that the hand is away from the chest - he's anchored.

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

I'd like to see one of the "stats" site or geeks go back and show finishes and putting by the long putters - comparing how they did with the long putter and how they are doing since changing.
I understand that it there are more than one variable in the change - hell look how Spieth did the week he changed short sticks.

It's not really about that.

It's about the way the game is played, or how the ruling bodies think the game should be played, or how a stroke should be made. They feel it should be a freely swinging stroke, not a stroke with an anchor point.

The fact that more and more people were anchoring pushed them into making a rule about it.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

It's not really about that.

It's about the way the game is played, or how the ruling bodies think the game should be played, or how a stroke should be made. They feel it should be a freely swinging stroke, not a stroke with an anchor point.

The fact that more and more people were anchoring pushed them into making a rule about it.

Yes. And watching BL putt it sure seems like he's using an anchor point to me. I think he's gotten lazy and moves his hand off his chest but keeps his upper forearm/arm against his chest.

[iacas]

46 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Yes. And watching BL putt it sure seems like he's using an anchor point to me. I think he's gotten lazy and moves his hand off his chest but keeps his upper forearm/arm against his chest.

I didn't see anything I'd penalize in the videos a few posts up. The only one that I've seen that's suspicious is the one in the tweet, and we don't even know if that was during an actual stroke.

[todgot]

 My understanding regarding the rule changing the stroke versus the equipment is if they tried to ban the equipment they would be open to a law suit which would be tied up in court for a long time... similar to the Ping grooves issue.  Equipment changes are much harder to get through than changes regarding what constitutes a swing or other rules. 

side note:  I read in "The Greatest Game Ever Played" an American won the British Open using an unconventional putter so they banned the putter... and it remains banned to this day.  I can't remember the year or the golfer.  end side note. 

 

[Golfingdad]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

I didn't see anything I'd penalize in the videos a few posts up. The only one that I've seen that's suspicious is the one in the tweet, and we don't even know if that was during an actual stroke.

His mannerisms in that super short clip would have me betting my money that it's a practice stroke.

20 minutes ago, todgot said:

 My understanding regarding the rule changing the stroke versus the equipment is if they tried to ban the equipment they would be open to a law suit which would be tied up in court for a long time... similar to the Ping grooves issue.  Equipment changes are much harder to get through than changes regarding what constitutes a swing or other rules. 

side note:  I read in "The Greatest Game Ever Played" an American won the British Open using an unconventional putter so they banned the putter... and it remains banned to this day.  I can't remember the year or the golfer.  end side note. 

The Greatest Game Ever Played is about Francis Ouimet winning the US Open over Harry Vardon in 1913.  The movie is fantastic. :)  Interesting note about his putter though, I'd never heard that and it's certainly not brought up in the movie.  He uses a very normal putter in the movie.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

His mannerisms in that super short clip would have me betting my money that it's a practice stroke.

I tend to agree, but maybe it was a short tap-in, too, where he didn't really take a practice stroke and his routine may have led him to "forget" to take the arm off the chest?

7 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

The Greatest Game Ever Played is about Francis Ouimet winning the US Open over Harry Vardon in 1913.  The movie is fantastic. :)  Interesting note about his putter though, I'd never heard that and it's certainly not brought up in the movie.  He uses a very normal putter in the movie.

He's talking about the Schenectady putter.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2017/04/rules-throwback--the-schenectady-putter.html

[Golfingdad]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

I tend to agree, but maybe it was a short tap-in, too, where he didn't really take a practice stroke and his routine may have led him to "forget" to take the arm off the chest?

Sure, it could be.  I wonder if somebody could tweet to Haney about it and ask him specifically? ;)

[Alx]

I watched a few of his recent puts and it looks like he does occasionally anchor.

When he doesnt its clear that the hand isnt "locked" to the chest and theres movement. But there are putts where he is just too "locked".

[skydog]

This is pathetic- we shouldn't have to pour over forensic shirt evidence to determine if a player is violating the rules or not. It's not good for the game IMO. The broomstick putters make this kind of ambiguity too prevalent- do away with them.

[Golfingdad]

8 minutes ago, skydog said:

The broomstick putters make this kind of ambiguity too prevalent- do away with them.

One could also argue that it's not the equipment, but rather the new rule that makes this kind of ambiguity prevalent, and it should be done away with instead.  It would just depend on your point of view. 

[rehmwa]

On 6/2/2017 at 0:44 PM, Golfingdad said:

an anchor point exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club

I bet it exists when the player 'unintentionally' does it too.  but that's just me

[Golfingdad]

56 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I bet it exists when the player 'unintentionally' does it too.  but that's just me

I get that you're probably being facetious, but I don't think it does.  If it's truly unintentional, then the second half of the rule can't apply.  If it's by accident it couldn't be "TO establish a gripping hand ....."

So I think the intent matters in that case.  Otherwise, why is the word there?

[rehmwa]

10 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I get that you're probably being facetious,

That would be playing the odds for sure....  ; )

[zero]

Can't you just say "elbows down can't touch the body. club can only contact the hands"?

[Missouri Swede]

1 minute ago, zero said:

Can't you just say "elbows down can't touch the body. club can only contact the hands"?

Ever have your forearm or hand contact your shoulder on followthrough of a full swing? I have. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, zero said:

Can't you just say "elbows down can't touch the body. club can only contact the hands"?

Also, you can hold the putter grip against your forearm.