Trump Drives Cart on Green

[drmevo]

Just now, nevets88 said:

I don't know the guy, I don't know how trustworthy he is.

Seems far-fetched he had time to set up a deceiving camera angle, or that he simply couldn't tell from what, 20-30 yards away? It's not a tiny golf ball we're talking about. 

[Jeremie Boop]

1 minute ago, drmevo said:

Seems far-fetched he had time to set up a deceiving camera angle, or that he simply couldn't tell from what, 20-30 yards away? It's not a tiny golf ball we're talking about. 

Or, he realized afterword that Trump wasn't on the green but the video was worth more without the correction because it looks like he is? There's no reason to think he intentionally recorded the video from a deceiving angle, it's easy enough for that to happen naturally.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Seems far-fetched he had time to set up a deceiving camera angle, or that he simply couldn't tell from what, 20-30 yards away? It's not a tiny golf ball we're talking about. 

He's not 20-30 yards away. That's zoomed magnified video.

[drmevo]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

He's not 20-30 yards away. That's zoomed magnified video.

OK, in the interest of the forensics here (), I'm not buying that. If anything, phone video tends to make things appear further away than they really are. He drives up and fist bumps them at the end. There's no perceptible zooming in or out. You can count maybe 7-8 cart lengths that he drives to get from the start to where the guys are standing. They're close enough to tell whether he's on the green or not.

[ZappyAd]

53 minutes ago, iacas said:

As part of my procrastinating… I looked at the Trump Bedminster course on Google Earth. My imagery date is from August, 2016, so not too out of date.

I can't find the green where this supposedly occurred.

There are trees nearby. There are no bunkers nearby. The observers are filming from the direction of the approach shots, with "beyond the green" to the left.

I see no green it could be. Go ahead, flip this to satellite view and tell me…

 

My guess is that it is here - 16th hole of the new course

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40°38'53.8"N+74°41'59.3"W/@40.648274,-74.7003565,188m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.648274!4d-74.699808

The shooter is standing by the road to the north east on what looks like the tee for the next hole.

 

[TN94z]

1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

When I gave the video a second look, it sure appears that he is driving on the very manicured approach and not the green. Early in the video, one can see that the green's approach is very long.

My initial thought when I saw this video first, was that I could have sworn that he was not on the green. I haven't had time to watch it closely, but I just seem to remember there being some defining line in the video where the green seemed to have started and his cart was not beyond that line. I'll have to go back when I have time and find what I'm thinking of. In reading this whole topic, I kept thinking, "What if my memory is correct and all of these replies are hammering a guy that actually did nothing wrong?" 

Edited June 23, 2017 by TN94z

[Jeremie Boop]

8 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

My guess is that it is here - 16th hole of the new course

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40°38'53.8"N+74°41'59.3"W/@40.648274,-74.7003565,188m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.648274!4d-74.699808

The shooter is standing by the road to the north east on what looks like the tee for the next hole.

 

That looks about right. The angle where they were would put that bunker I thought I could see in the background where it should be, along with the trees.

[TN94z]

I just watched the video again and I really don't think he drove on the green. He is really close to the mow lines in the fairway and when the camera pans to the right very quickly, it looks to me like the green is further behind him.

[nevets88]

Someone get the GPS id of his cart, stat! 

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, drmevo said:

OK, in the interest of the forensics here (), I'm not buying that. If anything, phone video tends to make things appear further away than they really are.

Where's the original video?

Look at the last frame… do you think the guy had his camera 1' from Trump's face, or whatever that would be?

20 minutes ago, drmevo said:

You can count maybe 7-8 cart lengths that he drives to get from the start to where the guys are standing.

I count more than 7-8 cart lengths. It takes him eight seconds to get to the point where he's still 4 or 5 yards away.

18 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

My guess is that it is here - 16th hole of the new course

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40°38'53.8"N+74°41'59.3"W/@40.648274,-74.7003565,188m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.648274!4d-74.699808

The shooter is standing by the road to the north east on what looks like the tee for the next hole.

I don't know. I don't see any bunkers by that green.

---

More and more I'm doubting whether he even drove ON the green to begin with.

And what would those of you who were railing so hard say then?

[zipazoid]

Okay. If he is not on the green but instead on the collar, then fine. Not on the green. Then the question becomes, are all golfers allowed to do that? If yes there's no story here. If no, then he's still doing something others can't. Some may have a problem with that, some may not. But to me, it seems 'privileged' - that he's doing something only he can get away with.

[ZappyAd]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't know. I don't see any bunkers by that green.

At about 7 seconds there is a guy screen right in white who looks to be walking out of one. I think there is some kind of bank or elevation at the right side of the green and the bunkers are on the other side of it.  The fairway comes in from the right side of the camera shot so it would make sense that the bunkers are oriented towards the incoming shots from the fairway.  The guy in white has come up short right from the fairway and ended up in the bunker.  Camera man is long left of the green from the perspective of the fairway.

[drmevo]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Look at the last frame… do you think the guy had his camera 1' from Trump's face, or whatever that would be?

Arm's-length or a little more, sure. If there's any zoom at all it's not much.

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

I count more than 7-8 cart lengths. It takes him eight seconds to get to the point where he's still 4 or 5 yards away.

OK, maybe 40 yards? Even 50? Still close enough to tell whether a golf cart is on the green. The other piece of this is, we don't see how he got to where he was. Whatever happened before the video started may have been more obvious (or maybe not). Either way, I'd still take the word of a guy standing right there who saw the whole thing over some inconclusive video.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, drmevo said:

Still close enough to tell whether a golf cart is on the green.

Only if the narrator is reputable. Who knows?

I still think he was probably on the green or very close to it, but I can't say for certain. If this was a jury case, I've not seen enough evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt."

1 minute ago, drmevo said:

Still close enough to tell whether a golf cart is on the green. The other piece of this is, we don't see how he got to where he was. Whatever happened before the video started may have been more obvious (or maybe not).

Or it may have shown him driving through the fringe, or it may have shown a secret service agent parking the cart, and Trump hopping in and driving it off the green.

We don't know. Speculation is pointless.

1 minute ago, drmevo said:

Either way, I'd still take the word of a guy standing right there who saw the whole thing over some inconclusive video.

Yeah… I'm not inclined to take his word for it. It's a factor, and I consider it, but that's about it.

[RandallT]

28 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

At about 7 seconds there is a guy screen right in white who looks to be walking out of one. I think there is some kind of bank or elevation at the right side of the green and the bunkers are on the other side of it.  The fairway comes in from the right side of the camera shot so it would make sense that the bunkers are oriented towards the incoming shots from the fairway.  The guy in white has come up short right from the fairway and ended up in the bunker.  Camera man is long left of the green from the perspective of the fairway.

Yep. Just watched the video several times and cross-referenced with that location you found above.

I lean toward the vantage point of the video indicates only an illusion that the cart is in the green. I think it's more likely that the cart is on the closely mown grass between the camera and the green. 

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, RandallT said:

I lean toward the vantage point of the video indicates only an illusion that the cart is in the green. I think it's more likely that the cart is on the closely mown grass between the camera and the green. 

I'm not quite there yet, but I'm getting closer.

Trump, speaking specifically about golf, probably knows not to drive on the green, even if he's "allowed" to because the owns the course. That weighs into the opinion on whether he's likely to have done it.

If you told me he was close to the green but on the fringe, I'd believe that right now, almost fully. His cart never seems to transition from one area to the other and after only a few seconds he's clearly NOT on the green.

The video is just pixellated and crappy enough that you can't tell what the shading is and where the lines and slopes are.

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, drmevo said:

Arm's-length or a little more, sure. If there's any zoom at all it's not much.

OK, maybe 40 yards? Even 50? Still close enough to tell whether a golf cart is on the green. The other piece of this is, we don't see how he got to where he was. Whatever happened before the video started may have been more obvious (or maybe not). Either way, I'd still take the word of a guy standing right there who saw the whole thing over some inconclusive video.

With how much hate there is out there for Trump, I'm inclined to think the guy was lying to make him look bad.

[NJpatbee]

If everyone drove their cart on or near the greens they would eventually make a mess.  Maintenance staff driving equipment on or near the green is standard practice and I have seen course managers and rangers also go in areas that most golfers are not allowed, including cart path only holes.  To see a course owner drive closer to the green than others are allowed is not that surprising since the owner likely feels he is one of the few that can bend the rules.  To my eyes he did not appear to be on the green itself but too close for comfort and I doubt members and guests are allowed to do the same.  But certain privileged people, including the maintenance staff, can go where others are not allowed.

I doubt that there was any damage done and it is only a big deal because of the driver.