Thoughts about Shawn Clement Videos ?

[yanni]

I will still take lessons with a pro. But I think his "swing ideas" ans basic thoughts somehow make sense to me. But this also totally depends on the person. If I were 16 years of age and very athletic maybe his whole approach would not really fit me. But with over 40 and having back problems and totally overthinking everything this "simple" and "natural" idea helps. His golf swing does not look very athletic or dynamic. But I am to old for this anyway. 

I also checked out the 5SK concept now. Those concepts are a bit similar due to the fact that they both concentrate on very view topics which I think is good. Even if Shawn has over 700 videos he has very view basic concepts he repeats all the time.

The one thing in the 5SK concept which I am not sure about is "Keep the head steady". Shawn (and many many other instructors) have a different opinion about that. When I try to keep my head steady I have big problems with swinging through. Shawn (and many others) think topping has nothing to do with moving your head but with not shifting your weight and casting. From what I tried so far this is true. Keeping my head totally steady gives me a hard time to do my backswing and follow through.

 

[mvmac]

7 minutes ago, yanni said:

Shawn (and many others) think topping has nothing to do with moving your head but with not shifting your weight and casting.

Also known as Keys 2 and 3.

8 minutes ago, yanni said:

Keeping my head totally steady gives me a hard time to do my backswing and follow through.

Steady head doesn't mean "completely still, non-moving head". Key #1 can allow for a little movement up and down and/or side to side (especially with the longer clubs). The head will also rotate, Duval and Annika for example have steady heads.

Basically Key#1 is a result of a good pivot, you don't see good players move their heads several inches up/down or side to side, it stays relatively steady.

[yanni]

 

Quote

 

Basically Key#1 is a result of a good pivot, you don't see good players move their heads several inches up/down or side to side, it stays relatively steady.

 

 

 

 

Its true. You don't see that. But this is due to the fact that they do other things right I think. So if you do the rest right your head won't move a lot anyway.

 

When I look at my head (on video) its pretty steady. Once I start focusing on "hold your head still" the follow trough does not work anymore. So I think if you look at your video and your head is moving like hell there is something wrong. For example maybe your weight shift is very extreme. But if you force yourself with something "hold your head still or you will top the ball! " this could lead into problems. Also all those other golfers will tell you "Oh you topped the ball. Hold your head still!" In my case this is not the problem at all and does not solve anything. 

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by yanni

[RandallT]

4 hours ago, yanni said:

So if you do the rest right your head won't move a lot anyway

I think you described there what 5SK teaches. The "steady head" is just an easy way to remember it and to check yourself. 

When you pivot on the backswing, if you do things correctly, the upper rotational center of your body won't drift far from where it started. Ditto on the downswing before contact.  

Thats a commonality of all pros. You see it in Shawn's swing too.

But it is not a maniacal focus on keeping your head still as you kinda framed it- which I would imagine would lead to bad results. There is athleticism involved, not mechanical robotic feelings of keeping a head perfectly in place.

Here Shawn is basically getting at a similar thing I think, but through various analogies of skipping rocks, hammering doors, swinging a scythe or something. He explains why you wouldn't move your head too much doing those activities.

I see what you mean that he tries to focus on whole swing thoughts, but the video is basically about keeping a steady head. I think it's generally in agreement with 5SK (I could be wrong)

 

[yanni]

I agree that 5 KS probably means it probably the "correct" way. But the focus on this as a keypoint may lead people into a wrong direction.

[RandallT]

5 minutes ago, yanni said:

I agree that 5 KS probably means it probably the "correct" way. But the focus on this as a keypoint may lead people into a wrong direction.

So Shawn should pull down his video above too? Same thing basically. Unless I'm missing something 

[Vinsk]

I guess the 'feels' Shawn tries to produce by presenting other activities is helpful to some people. I dunno, the problem for me is I can skip stones all day, I can use a grass whip all day and not hit myself or dig up dirt or miss the grass entirely. I cannot however hit a golf ball accurately with ease all day long.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, yanni said:

I agree that 5 KS probably means it probably the "correct" way. But the focus on this as a keypoint may lead people into a wrong direction.

All it takes is reading past the title of Key #1 before you realize it's more about a centered pivot than anything actually dealing with the head staying "still."

There's really no focus on the "head" as a "keypoint."

[14ledo81]

41 minutes ago, iacas said:

All it takes is reading past the title of Key #1 before you realize it's more about a centered pivot than anything actually dealing with the head staying "still."

There's really no focus on the "head" as a "keypoint."

Yes.

My head stays relatively still.  I believe I would rate fairly high at that key.  I do not actively think about keeping my head still at all.

[mvmac]

6 hours ago, yanni said:

I agree that 5 KS probably means it probably the "correct" way. But the focus on this as a keypoint may lead people into a wrong direction.

Key #1 Steady Head is NOT a swing thought.

10 hours ago, yanni said:

ts true. You don't see that. But this is due to the fact that they do other things right I think. So if you do the rest right your head won't move a lot anyway.

Right, like I said

10 hours ago, mvmac said:

Basically Key#1 is a result of a good pivot

 

[arturo28mx]

For me, his videos take too much time.

[gregsandiego]

On 7/26/2017 at 11:12 PM, yanni said:

Recently someone on this forum who struggled with his swing recommended 2 Shawn Clement youtube videos. I watched those 2 videos and this was quite a game changer for me. I watched tons of other videos most with complicated instructions and no focus on "the whole" swing idea. I always had the impression with all those little details I will never get it. Everything what he does is easy to learn and feels just natural. In his videos for the first time I was understanding the whole concept of the swing. Its not about concentrating on tons of stuff at the same time . Its just about a pretty natural movement. Which as a site effect improved my clubhead speed by 10mph. Just cause I am letting everything go now. This with the combination of recording myself on video really boosted my progress. I noticed he does tons of videos but repeats the basic concepts over and over again. I think this is NOT a bad thing. He sticks to the basics but shows them in different contexts. 

With my pro its like "correct this part. OK. now correct this part. OK". And at the end I don't cannot hit the ball anymore. But he never explained the whole, natural swing or the concept behind this to me. 

I wondering what others think about his videos and if anybody tried the premium content ? Don't really understand the difference to the free content which is already outstanding?

I don't know about his earlier stuff but here's a recent one I can not stand because of the format.  3 or 4 minutes in and he's talking talking talking without getting to the content.

As far as how to do a good YouTube check out Peter Finch. Those videos are just as long as they need to be and he starts right in with what you want to see.

 

 

 

 

 

[BaconNEggs]

Shawn is ok. I like his non-mechanical approach and focus on feels and alternative swing thoughts, but I think they're also going to be very hit or miss for an individual and can actually be dentrimental depending on interpretation and execution. 

Trying to duplicate someone else's feels will always he hazardous. I think they're only valuable when you're already familiar with the motion-- Shawn uses the analogy of using a sledgehammer or heavy axe, for example, which is something I'm guessing a fairly decent number of people have never actually used. 

His swing is goofy looking but he seems to be a good ball striker. I like his focus on rhythm and intention. I think most people across most skill levels could probably find something useful from his teaching, but caveat emptor. 

He also really likes to talk. I think most of his content could probably be cut in half without losing any instruction. 

[Dave325]

Different instruction and instructors work for some people better than others. If it helps you to play better and enjoy the game more, than it just may be for you. I have been through quite a few instruction methods over the years, including Shawn's instruction at the premium level. He has definitely helped me and is not very expensive. However, I personally switched to RST after that. There is no magic bullet... This just worked for me personally.  One last point... Evolvr is a nice option some have already mentioned. And Erik is a great instructor that you may consider for a one-on-one lesson. He has helped me too. I know that my be difficult being in Europe.

[stephenf]

Shawn Clement's teachings are actually very "old school."  He teaches the swing similarly to the way Ernest Jones, Manuel de la Torre, Harvey Penick, etc. taught the swing.  To me, it is a superior way to learn the swing.  

First, through analogies, he allows the student to understand that the golf swing is an athletic movement that is very similar to other athletic movements.  If you already know how to throw a ball, skip a stone or cast a fishing rod, you know the basics of the golf swing.  Second, he has drills (which have been around for a long time because they work) that reinforce the correct movements and (most importantly) let the student feel a swing.  The swing is taught as a whole.  Third, there is a mental aspect to the videos.  The emphasis is on swinging to the target.  The movements are swing focused, not ball focused.  The focus actually improves ball striking.  The student learns to play golf, not golf positions and body parts.   

I have found Shawn's approach very helpful.  In the past, I took numerous lessons, went to golf workshops, tried training aids, the whole nine yards.  Shawn's approach has been very liberating.  Using his drills and approach, I have gotten farther in the past 6 months that I did in the previous 6 years.  

The problem with Shawn's free video content is that it's not well organized.  I recommended Shawn to my son earlier in the year and organized the videos for him.  Here is a copy of the email I sent to my son:

"I rewatched a number of Shawn Clement's videos on YouTube. I finally have a list of his best videos for you. I put them in a rough order to make learning his approach easier. I have listed the name of the videos below. If you go to YouTube and search "Shawn Clement Video Name", the video should come up.

Intro videos/philosophy 

1. Golfers Over 40 Watch This. (Watch this even though you are not over 40. It is a good intro to his approach.)

2. Ridiculously Easy Golf Part I.

3. Ridiculously Easy Golf Part II.

4. K.I.S.S. Golf--Keep it Simple.

5. Feel the Weight of the Golf Swing.

6. Stop Overthinking Your Golf.

Process Videos

1. Best Video on the Grip Ever.

2. Knife the Grip.

3. Golf Grip and Wrist Hinge.

4. Set Up Posture to Swing to the Target.

5. Set Up all Clubs.

6. Understanding Weight Shift.

7. Takeaway and Starting Golf Swing.

8. Starting the Downswing.

9. Aiming, Alignment and Ball Position.

10. Body--Arms--Hands Timing in Golf Swing.

11. Swing Plane Update.

12. Rhythm in Golf Swing.

13. Tempo and Timing.

Specific Drills--a great way to learn the basics of the Swing. You can do these even if you haven't watched all the previous videos.

1. Fencing for Power in Golf.

2. Best Drill in Golf--Feet Together. ( if you can do this drill and the one foot dill, you are most the way to a good Swing).

3. Savvy Feet Together. (There are a number of Videos wth Savvy. These may help Kate to visualize how her Swing will look).

4. 2nd Best Drill in Golf--One Leg.

5. Perpetual Balance Drill.

6. Learn Golf Much Faster with this Drill. (Elephant Walk.)

7. Feet Together--One Leg Updates.

8. Feet Together Driver=Consistency.

9. Through the Ball Drills.

10. Spine Angle Kettle Bell Tips.

11. Amazing Lumberjack Sledgehammer Drill. Mental Approach to Golf--Play Golf, not Golf Swing

 

Mental approach.

1. How to Focus in Golf Part I.

2. How to Focus in Golf Part II.

3. Mental Game Baseball for Golf. (Introduces RIBS concept for evaluating shots in practice and play.)

4. Instinctive Practice.

A few additional videos for later. 

1. Eyes Closed for Solid Contact.

2. Throw that Club Straight.

3. Be Savvy When Throwing Clubs.

4. Savvy with Your Center.

 

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Sorry to be ringing in so long after the fact, but this was one of the most helpful (and generous) posts I've ever seen.

Seems to me that a couple of the complaints here (among the accolades) might have to do with Clement having a tough time handling the volume of students and comments and so forth.  He is a tremendously popular teacher, and maybe the numbers just got overwhelming.  I've read a lot from people who've had great experiences with him, and it's true that he's definitely in the tradition of Ernest Jones, Penick, Toski, Flick, with some hints of people like Stewart Maiden and Seymour Dunn, more recently Leslie King and John Jacobs, among others.  That is one helluva tradition to be in.  

Edited April 9, 2019 by stephenf

[Vinsk]

I'm sure there are those who relate well to Shawn's teaching style as apparently you have. Shawn is a feel teacher. And that's my problem. I've worked with Shawn in person. He has a tremendous sense of feel and I think sometimes he can't relate well to those who don't, like me. Shawn is able to stack two nickels on top of each other a swing the club and knock only the top nickel off. He can play very well both left and right handed. Just because I can skip a rock doesn't mean I can perform the proper trail arm movement (particularly the elbow) with a golf club. I can't. I don't have that feel with a club whatsoever. There were five of us in the group so he couldn't provide much one on one instruction at that time. But I did get a good solid 15 minutes with him one on one and he offered several 'drills' for me which unfortunately were all 'feel' based for which I did not have the feel that he thought I did (as he did). Unfortunately his conclusion for me, my priority piece, was to switch and play right handed. So just didn't work out for me at all.

I put a good effort in for him as well. I even bought a grass whip as he suggested. A worthless tool for me as I simply cannot/did not translate that 'feel' to the golf club. Also as you mentioned he became overwhelmed with inquiries I'm sure as I sent him a rather heart felt email asking for some further advice and told him of my progress for which I received the following response: " Hey there. Glad to see your progressing. How's that power fade working for you?" This was obviously a robot generated response as it had nothing to do with my email. At that point I chose to move on from Shawn. Just my experience.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 7/28/2017 at 1:48 PM, mvmac said:

Key #1 Steady Head is NOT a swing thought.

 

 

Well, it is for me! Last Summer I went out to the practice range to get some work in. I did my stretching and warmup and practice swings, and went to work with the PW. Worm burner, worm burner, worm burner! What the Hell?! I took a little break, sipped some water and kept warming up. Went back at it and nothing but worm burners! I couldn't get a thing up off the ground! 

I was getting pissed by now, so I turned to get the Sun behind me so I could take a swing and watch my shadow. I noticed that I was letting my head lunge toward the target on the downswing. I thought that might be my problem, so I made a bunch of practice swing keeping my head back while letting my hips slide targetward. The first swing I made at a ball, it flew just like its supposed to! 

I have no idea why I started doing that. I had played just a few days before and struck the ball quite well! 

[stephenf]

On 4/8/2019 at 9:21 PM, Vinsk said:

I put a good effort in for him as well. I even bought a grass whip as he suggested. A worthless tool for me as I simply cannot/did not translate that 'feel' to the golf club. 

You may be aware that was a favorite thing with Harvey Penick, who I think credited "Wild" Bill Mehlhorn at least in part.  Point is, it really does work for a lot of people and is very much time-tested.  But it's also true that no specific approach, or drill, or device, or bit of language is going to work for everybody.  Otherwise every tour pro would go to one teacher.

2 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Well, it is for me! Last Summer I went out to the practice range to get some work in. I did my stretching and warmup and practice swings, and went to work with the PW. Worm burner, worm burner, worm burner! What the Hell?! I took a little break, sipped some water and kept warming up. Went back at it and nothing but worm burners! I couldn't get a thing up off the ground! 

I was getting pissed by now, so I turned to get the Sun behind me so I could take a swing and watch my shadow. I noticed that I was letting my head lunge toward the target on the downswing. I thought that might be my problem, so I made a bunch of practice swing keeping my head back while letting my hips slide targetward. The first swing I made at a ball, it flew just like its supposed to! 

I have no idea why I started doing that. I had played just a few days before and struck the ball quite well! 

Only the greatest major-championship player in history advised that very thing.  Seems to have worked out for him over a very long and successful career, too.

On 7/30/2017 at 6:03 PM, BaconNEggs said:

Shawn is ok. I like his non-mechanical approach and focus on feels and alternative swing thoughts, but I think they're also going to be very hit or miss for an individual and can actually be dentrimental depending on interpretation and execution. 

Trying to duplicate someone else's feels will always he hazardous. I think they're only valuable when you're already familiar with the motion-- Shawn uses the analogy of using a sledgehammer or heavy axe, for example, which is something I'm guessing a fairly decent number of people have never actually used. 

His swing is goofy looking but he seems to be a good ball striker. I like his focus on rhythm and intention. I think most people across most skill levels could probably find something useful from his teaching, but caveat emptor. 

He also really likes to talk. I think most of his content could probably be cut in half without losing any instruction. 

It's true the vids are talky. 

As for his swing, I know it's not the kind of thing you look at and think "man, I want it to be just like _that_."  But I keep thinking:  Does anybody remember what Jack Grout looked like swinging a club?  Or Harvey Penick, or Stewart Maiden?  It just isn't necessary to have an impressive-looking swing to be a great teacher.

On 7/28/2017 at 1:50 AM, mvmac said:

Steady head doesn't mean "completely still, non-moving head". Key #1 can allow for a little movement up and down and/or side to side (especially with the longer clubs). The head will also rotate, Duval and Annika for example have steady heads.

Yup.  Not surprisingly, Nicklaus has covered this better than anybody.  As time went on, he clarified "head still" as referring to a "quiet" head, not one rigidly held in position, not one that didn't swivel as necessary, etc.  Also said a slight counterbalancing through the ball was fine, and releasing up and out once you're past full release is fine.  Mainly, trying to lock it in position with tension in the neck and shoulders is no good.

A second take on this question I always found interesting was Byron Nelson's insistence that a free-swinging motion and a quiet head were two necessary aspects of the same motion.  That is, learning to swing with freedom of motion, he said, was about the only way you were going to be able to keep your head still.  A swinging motion tries to find a still point.  It's actually true.
 

On 7/30/2017 at 5:45 PM, gregsandiego said:

As far as how to do a good YouTube check out Peter Finch. 

Definitely will do.  I absolutely loved his work in Network.  I'm as mad as hell too, and I'm not gonna take it anymore either.  We need more golf teachers like that.