Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[Lihu]

15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

You can't make a swing without your brain sending the signals to make the muscles move.

You can’t do any sport without brain function.

That’s not how mental game was defined.

 

15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Subconscious does not mean physical.

Personally I am not a big visualizer.  Some people really do well with that though clearly.

If you read how it is defined you might actually change your vote.

 

15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Its ludicrous to say golf is not a mental game.

Just not nearly as much as physical. . .

20 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

No. I completely disagree with this. Visualization helps you before a shot. It does not hurt you after.  SMH. 

It sets expectations. Why else would anyone get mad after a bad shot?

[Jack Watson]

@sjduffers

Why bastardize the English language for the purposes of a thread?

The point is if you practiced badly and thus made a bad swing subconscious over time is the cause of said bad swing physical or mental?

Ultimately it's still mental you were just ignorant/stupid you should have practiced better.  A poor mental approach caused your troubles. Getting out of it is now MUCH more difficult because now you gotta get in there and tweak the program.

I refuse to bastardize the English language and contradict the greatest golfers the game has ever seen.

No wonder my ideas are so popular.

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

So, I think your right about the percentages being more than a percent, but not much more.

It's not the same for everyone and it's much, much higher than a percent for some.

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

It's not the same for everyone and it's much, much higher than a percent for some.

Possibly, but if you depend too much on your mental state, the proper steps to improve your game is to improve your swing. That will improve your scores and your attitude to bad shots.

A good swing will feel “complete” like you put your best effort into it.  Contact and direction would be nice, but you gave it your best shot. Yes, you can get frustrated with the results, but the golfers with good swings, I know, generally don’t throw tantrums after a bad shot. Rarely, and they’ve never blamed their mental state, at least not in front of me.

I can honestly say, I get frustrated on the driving range, but rarely on the course. On the range I’m putting too much emphasis to “perfection”. I want to hit the best I can since I’m in a relatively controlled environment.

On the course, I’m pretty much happy with whatever I can get. That makes me a happier golfer.

Golf is really hard, why make it frustrating too?

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lihu

[Jack Watson]

It's a well known fact that many great athletes use visualization.  

Its also a well known fact that they enter altered states of consciousness.

Nicklaus said "concentration is a potent remedy for anxiety"

Look up flow state or zone...

Yes I know about that from experience.  

Its way way tougher to achieve in golf precisely because golf is almost not even a sport compared with many others in terms of the physical demands.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Jack Watson

[sjduffers]

About visualization: 

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

It sets expectations. Why else would anyone get mad after a bad shot?

The purpose of visualization is not to set expectations.

You always expect to have a good shot when you set up to one, don't you? Are you saying that sometimes, before you pull the trigger, you expect a bad shot? Well, it's just stupid to go ahead then. Is it not? Reset your expectation (and perhaps your shot selection, which is a mental process btw) and do something that is positive instead of expecting (and then achieving) something that is negative. Again, SMH.

I am done discussing this.

[Lihu]

 

Quote

Are you saying that sometimes, before you pull the trigger, you expect a bad shot? Well, it's just stupid to go ahead then. Is it not?

Not if that shot is your only choice, and many times it comes off pretty nicely. Sometimes not.

Any shot you make was the best you could have done. You can’t change the past, and if your mood affects your swing that much you should probably just improve your swing.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lihu

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Its ludicrous to say golf is not a mental game.

Nah.

50 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

It's a well known fact that many great athletes use visualization.

You can visualize all you want. If you’re a 25 index you’re not visualizing your way to a PGA Tour win.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Today, the lack of mental focus hit me right between the eyes.

Come on, that doesn't make golf a mental sport. Get in the octagon against someone when you're not focused and they'll wipe the floor with you. That doesn't make MMA a mental sport.

[Jack Watson]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

You can visualize all you want. If you’re a 25 index you’re not visualizing your way to a PGA Tour win.

No,  but you might make a new personal best.  Especially if you currently hold the mistaken belief that golf is not mental.

 

 

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, Jack Watson said:

No,  but you might make a new personal best.  Especially if you currently hold the mistaken belief that golf is not mental.

Funny, but all my scores in the mid 70s were all but mentally focused. I was hitting pretty much everywhere with one of them, but they ended up in great places. Most of my better rounds were played without knowing that they would be that good. I just kept chugging along and the scores happened.

 

[Jack Watson]

https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/being-in-the-zone-the-flow-state-in-athletic-endeavors

@Lihu

yeah man feelin the flow...being unself conscious

I am talking about an altered state of consciousness.

I've hit a lot of greens a few times and iron shots just seemed so easy the whole round.

Mentally I was in a different place from normal. 

[JonMA1]

7 minutes ago, billchao said:

Come on, that doesn't make golf a mental sport. Get in the octagon against someone when you're not focused and they'll wipe the floor with you. That doesn't make MMA a mental sport.

Never said it was all mental or even mostly mental. It's less than half IMO. I'm not talking about zen golf or mind over matter or any of that other horse#%#. It's just that for some of us, it's far more than just a "slight" amount.

If that's not the case for you, then cool - and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. You guys have to understand not everyone is wired the same.

[jsgolfer]

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/being-in-the-zone-the-flow-state-in-athletic-endeavors

@Lihu

yeah man feelin the flow...being unself conscious

I am talking about an altered state of consciousness.

I've hit a lot of greens a few times and iron shots just seemed so easy the whole round.

Mentally I was in a different place from normal. 

If it as all mental then how come you cant do it every day?  So You never play well when you're not in the zone.  And the only time you've hit lots of greens is when you were in the zone.  Seriously?  I'm sorry, that makes no sense.

From your article:

"While we can’t enter the flow state at will, we can master the basics of a sport in order to be prepared to experience it when it happens - and to yearn for a long time afterward to return to that state again."

So in your mind golf is mental because one time you were in the zone and now you're yearning for it to happen again.  I'll go on my physical ability, you keep your mental prowess.  

[Buckeyebowman]

18 hours ago, mvmac said:

So if you wanted to get to a 3 handicap, you think improving your mental game is going to get you there? Improving the mental (more positive outlook or whatever) isn't going to change the physical (which is the reason you're an 8). Golfers can be as zen as they want and it's not going to change the fact they flip it.

These guys hit great shots just screwing around like this, not much concentration. The difference is that they are really, really good with the physical part of the game.

 

Yeah and how much of his book is dedicated to the mental game? By far it's mostly about the physical part of the game.

That doesn't make any sense. I've hit a ton of good shots after I've gotten pissed. Just watch any tournament on TV, it happens all the time.

You can't avoid or trick yourself out of getting mad, it's a normal human response. Golf is an extremely frustrating game, at any level. No ones physical skills will be so good that they'll never get mad.

Also, getting mad isn't necessarily a bad thing, a lot of times it can be a positive thing.

Sam Snead used to call it getting "cool mad"! Get mad enough that you buckle down and get the job done, but not so mad that you screw up your game.

And I think boogielicious made an excellent comment. A lot of folks want the easy way out. While I do believe in certain aspects of the "mental game" it doesn't mean a thing if you don't have the physical skills to go along with it. You can't dream yourself into a better golf swing.

I spent countless hours at the range figuring this crap out! For some reason the game hooked me, and I was willing to do so! But it has occurred to me that the better my ball striking got, the more I was able to let go of "instructional" or "paint by numbers" thoughts, and dial into more "how do I play this hole in order to score" thoughts.

[Lihu]

24 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/being-in-the-zone-the-flow-state-in-athletic-endeavors

Actually, I agree with this in general, but being in that state doesn’t necessarily guarantee low scores.

 

24 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

@Lihu

yeah man feelin the flow...being unself conscious

I am talking about an altered state of consciousness.

I've hit a lot of greens a few times and iron shots just seemed so easy the whole round.

Mentally I was in a different place from normal. 

I’ve played with many a golfer in that “altered state”. They had help with some Hawaiian Gold. The more “altered” their state, the longer their drives and lower their scores seemed to be. 

[Vinsk]

8 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

 

It's a well known fact that many great athletes use visualization.  

Its also a well known fact that they enter altered states of consciousness.

 

Jack you’re completely missing the point here. Nobody said golf is only physical and no mental attributes are warranted. Nobody. Of course athletes use mental components such as focus, visualization, calming tactics, etc. But the core of what’s being done be it competitive or recreational is a physical. Of course golf has a mental component, not sure why you keep shoving that down our throats. All sports do. But if you think becoming a great golfer (not your la la land I am the golf club and so happy nonsense) can be accomplished by acts of mental prowess...you’ll be an 8.3hcp at best forever...wait...what’s your hcp?

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

It's a well known fact that many great athletes use visualization.  

Its also a well known fact that they enter altered states of consciousness.

Nicklaus said "concentration is a potent remedy for anxiety"

Look up flow state or zone...

Yes I know about that from experience.  

Its way way tougher to achieve in golf precisely because golf is almost not even a sport compared with many others in terms of the physical demands.

 

 

A simple, honest question.

Why aren't you a better golfer?  Are you somehow limited mentally?