Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[bones75]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

Occam's Razor, man

We are one, but not the same.  For me Ockham's razor clearly points to nerves in the IK Kim case.

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

he's the exception, not the rule. He has a glaring weakness, and his inability or unwillingness to fix or improve it hints toward a larger mental deficit.

If you tell this to him he'll tell you you're preaching to the choir. That said, we clearly hang in different circles (skill levels) of golfers as it's not as much an exception for some of us higher indexers. I see guys working so hard to lower their index by just 1 over the course of a year, when, as @lihu stated, they could just reign in their temper and they'd instantly shave 1 stroke off every game.

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

The mental game is a tiny portion of what determines your score. More so for some than others, but still, way, way, way the **** under 50%.

I totally agree with this.

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[BallMarker]

Just now, iacas said:

No. Sometimes Jordan Spieth is physically superior. Or John Rahm. Or whomever.till, way, way, way the **** under 50%.

Okay. So, you agree with me that top players have similar physical abilities, or at least there's not that much difference in their physical abilities.

So, what does that leave us to ponder?

[iacas]

Just now, bones75 said:

We are one, but not the same.  For me Ockham's razor points to nerves.

Nah. The only evidence we have is what she said.

1 minute ago, bones75 said:

I see guys working so hard to lower their index by just 1 over the course of a year, when, as @lihu stated, they could just reign in their temper and they'd instantly shave 1 stroke off every game.

Still a pretty small sliver given the 80 other strokes they take.

And they're probably in the minority. Most golfers don't have "tempers" that cost them a stroke a round.

The question is "more mental or physical." The answer remains way, way, way more physical.

Just now, BallMarker said:

Okay. So, you agree with me that top players have similar physical abilities, or at least there's not that much difference in their physical abilities.

No, and I don't know how you got that from what I wrote.

They're different overall, and they're different week to week. How they're different week to week determines who wins week to week, and how they're different overall determines how players fare over the long term.

[BallMarker]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm a good putter. I can out-putt a beginner whether I'm hyper focused on the putt or whether I'm thinking about what deductions I may have missed on my taxes or what I'm going to eat for dinner or whatever.

 

Why do you keep bringing up "beginners"?

Aren't we trying to compare apples with apples?

I too can out putt any "beginners"....... or at least win 3 out of 5 times.....

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, and I don't know how you got that from what I wrote.

They're different overall, and they're different week to week. How they're different week to week determines who wins week to week, and how they're different overall determines how players fare over the long term.

You're chasing your tail.

[iacas]

Just now, BallMarker said:

Why do you keep bringing up "beginners"?

Because the physical skills matter way, way, way more in determining what score you shoot.

[BallMarker]

10 minutes ago, Lihu said:

LOL, yes.

Yes, I agree that it was her mind that did it, but I doubt it was a "mental" issue as we defined it. She probably wasn't apprehensive.

I never said she had a "mental issue".   lol

[klineka]

29 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

If that were true, Dustin Johnson would win all the time.

Physical ability between Dustin Johnson and Jordan Spieth isn't all the much different...meaning that Spieth hits it far enough to compete against anyone..

Dustin Johnson's average driving distance was 315 yards. Jordan Spieth's was 295. How can you claim that their physical ability is the same? One can hit it further than the other. Thats a proven fact. Clearly on that playoff hole for the Northern Trust Spieth didnt hit it far enough relative to Johnson to have a realistic chance when DJ was hitting a lob wedge and Spieth had what a 6 iron? You give them those same shots from the same spot in the fairway over 100 times, DJ is going to get down in the least amount of shots 75% of the time. Easily. Physical ability is what separated them on that hole. Not mental ability 

DJ is generating more clubhead speed and more ball speed to make the ball travel further. That is a direct result of having greater physical ability than Spieth. Does it always translate directly into wins, no. But you are incorrect in stating that Spieth and Dustin Johnson have the same physical ability.

5 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

 

Why do you keep bringing up "beginners"?

Aren't we trying to compare apples with apples?

I too can out putt any "beginners"....... or at least win 3 out of 5 times.....

I believe what @iacas is trying to say is that because his physical ability at putting is so much better than a beginner, that Erik would win regardless of the mental state that Erik is in, because his physical ability outweighs the lack of mental focus/ability for this instance

Edited September 26, 2017 by klineka

[BallMarker]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Because the physical skills matter way, way, way more in determining what score you shoot.

Okay.

But what other advantage do you have against a "beginner"?

Hint: It's not just physical.....

[klineka]

1 minute ago, BallMarker said:

Okay.

But what other advantage do you have against a "beginner"?

Hint: It's not just physical.....

You are making Erik's point. Erik is saying that with 0 focus on mental game he can still out putt the beginner because Erik is that much better physically than the beginner

[Patch]

2 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Uh, No.  Jedi-Mind tricks don't help you swing a club.  Either you do or you do not, there is no hoping you hit the ball in the direction you intend.

Try swinging a club without a brain....the mental side

[dzclarkcpa]

The Dustin Johnson / Jordan Speith argument would make sense to me if the object was to hit the ball the longest, as in Dustin Johnson is a shoe-in to win a long drive contest against Jordan Speith. However, in a golf tournament, the objective is to get the ball in the ball in the hole in the fewest number of strokes.

Its still physical ability, but who can hit the ball the longest in that contest, does not matter.

 

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, dzclarkcpa said:

The Dustin Johnson / Jordan Speith argument would make sense to me if the object was to hit the ball the longest, as in Dustin Johnson is a shoe-in to win a long drive contest against Jordan Speith. However, in a golf tournament, the objective is to get the ball in the ball in the hole in the fewest number of strokes.

Its still physical ability, but who can hit the ball the longest in that contest, does not matter.

I've never actually heard anyone say that a golfer who hits 200 yards off the tee could always beat the 300 yard golfer. Distance matters as long as they're both not in trouble.

[BallMarker]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

I believe what @iacas is trying to say is that because his physical ability at putting is so much better than a beginner,

Isn't that obvious?

Again, aren't we trying to compare apples with apples?

A beginner has just as much ability to hit the putt hard enough to get it to the hole.

But what does he lack that the more experience player have?

Answers are obvious: feel of the green, intuition, reading the green....etc.....things that have nothing to do with strength or how far you can hit.

 

My original response to this thread what

"But. But as your skills get better, the game becomes more mental".

[dzclarkcpa]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

I've never actually heard anyone say that a golfer who hits 200 yards off the tee could always beat the 300 yard golfer. Distance matters as long as they're both not in trouble.

And I have never heard anyone say that a golfer who hits it 300 yards could always beat one who hit it 200 yards. 

I think the real answer is, in golfers with equal physical ability, mental matters. Where the physical ability is different, the mental is much less important. For ME, mental matters because I am exactly the same physical golfer as I am where I think or not. So for me to maximize my potential, I have to be mentally smart. 

[billchao]

I can't believe this thread is still running. Nothing I've read from any of the supporters of golf being more of a mental game have dissuaded me from this, which I wrote all the way back on page 1:

On 9/25/2017 at 10:30 AM, billchao said:

A lot of the mental aspects in golf exist in other sports IMO. 

Just to address some things I saw brought up, in no particular order:

• Players of all sports can choke and mess up something they've done hundreds if not thousands of times.
• Athletes who have drug/alcohol problems are not unique to golf.
• Having an inability to focus or concentrate will negatively affect your ability to play all sports.
• Being able to stay even-keeled and composed is also an important skill in other sports.

Think about it. I don't think anyone would say football, baseball, hockey, boxing, etc., are more mental than physical. They all have mental aspects which can give a player an advantage, no different than golf, but first and foremost is the physical execution of athletic maneuvers.

Jordan Spieth can map out his plan to play all four rounds of a tournament all he wants, but he still has to go out there and hit the ball to the places he wants it to be. He might be able to grind out decent scores on days when he's not hitting the ball at his highest ability because he forces himself to mentally, but being able to hit the ball well in the first place is a physical ability.

[phillyk]

5 minutes ago, Patch said:

Try swinging a club without a brain....the mental side

Try swinging the club with your brain without the physical senses of eyesight, touch, smell, etc.  We can all keep going at this...

If we are getting into the nitty gritty, your brain works off of physical cues.  Mental "stuff" doesn't exist.  It's neurons firing, and because of one reason or another, something unintended may happen.  But, this isn't what we are talking about.

Golf is highly physical.  "Mental" game may matter to those who are of equal physical abilities, because every little bit matters.  But they are who they are because of their physical attributes.

 

[bones75]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nah. The only evidence we have is what she said.

C'mon @iacas, you gotta gimme something.. anything! You miss a putt you statistically make 1000/1000 times (extrapolated data) and "I didn't read the break right that time" is the simpler explanation (Ockham's razor) because that's what she called it?  Da' Nile ain't just a river! 

[JonMA1]

7 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

And there we are.

Mental is your ability to stay calm and composed. Sure then. Physical is most of it, but more of it for some of us than others. The term "head case" got used a couple of times. Maybe not the nicest way to put it, but there are worse so i'll go with it.

For your collective sakes, I hope I'm the worst head case on this board. A good mental day will never mean I shoot 70 because I can't physically swing a golf club well enough for that. However, the gap between a good mental day and a bad one for me, can be very significant. Experience shows the difference can be between a score in the mid to high 80s on a good day versus blowing triple digits.

For most, the difference probably isn't nearly as significant, but its a real thing for some of us.

 

 I like this post because I can relate to - it even if I'm less likely to blame my high scores on much other than poor mechanics.

I've run the gamut on emotions and shoot a pretty wide variance of scores. I've yet to recognize a pattern. A bad day of golf can be enjoyable, I can get super pissed while shooting a low score, and everything in between. If something outside of golf is really weighing heavy on my mind, it might very well affect my play. But even with that example, it might be more of lack of sleep.

Now when it comes to practice or improving off the course, that's another story - I'm a basket case. I repeat the poor habits, have difficulty understanding or interpreting instruction, can't focus, have little awareness of what my body is doing... you name it.