Feel Ain't Real

[JonMA1]

8 minutes ago, cooke119 said:

Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, and I apologize if I have, but at the range I can work on different 'techniques'  and get a 'feel' but on the course I really can't start thinking about my swing, I go by feel more than anything else. I can think on the backswing, e.g., brush it back, left arm straight, left shoulder under chin, head stationary, etc., but once I've completed the backswing if I think about anything on the downswing and follow through I'm sunk. I especially can't think about 'firing the hips first', that really screws me up. I've had by buddy film me at the range and I think I look pretty much as I feel. 

My very uneducated opinion is that there's a range of variance between those who's feels are closer to what's really going on and those who are very poor at it. I think what the OP might be saying is that on average, many of us are not as close as we think. 

For those of us who aren't great at it, it's important to be aware of how far apart the two can be. Especially when so many YouTube instructional videos use the same feel advice for anyone watching.

That said, a good instructor might use feel as a tool, but only because they know the student. For example, if I'm leaning towards the target at the top and it feels neutral, my instructor might tell me to feel like I'm leaning away from it. 

In your case, an instructor might only have to say "you're leaning too much towards the target at the top" and you'd be able to easily correct it because your feel is closer to what's really going on.

Again, just an uneducated opinion.

[iacas]

The basic point, @cooke119, is that feel ain't real, and you're better off to verify what you're doing. Sometimes the same feel produces very different mechanics in people, sometimes the same feel produces different mechanics in the same person depending on where they are or their understanding of the swing at the moment.

Verify, don't trust a "feel."

For example, right now it feels like I fold my elbow to 90° immediately during the backswing, before I even get to A3, then swing down with my elbow by my belly button and my right palm facing 90° away from the target.

In reality, my elbow folds a tiny bit sooner/faster, my elbow is an inch more forward than usual (and a foot from my belly button), and the clubface is about 5° more open to the target line than before.

My feels are "right" for me, but they're not "real".

[saevel25]

Not sure how beneficial this is for higher handicap golfers.

I try to find a consistent feel that produces a consistent flight before I begin a round. Sometimes a certain feel might produce a draw one day will produce a straighter or maybe a slight fade another day. 

This is the same with swing changes. Sometimes one feel might work really well for one practice session. Another day, the swing feel might need to be more exaggerated. 

[saevel25]

check out at 3:13... Tiger agreed feel ain’t real 😉

[mvmac]

[Vinsk]

So at first I see this and think the pic in the left is what BH thinks he’s doing and the right is what he’s actually doing.

But it also looks to me that the left pic could be the next position if you played out the right pic. Right elbow drops down and a bit forward, left shoulder around and up?

[Piz]

If I am remembering correctly, @Vinsk, the photo on the left is a pose.  Notice the lack of any flex in the shaft.  The photo on the right is dynamic.

I could be (and this is just conjecture) that Hogan was demonstrating the practical effects of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.  We can determine the position of the elbow or the velocity of the elbow...but not both simultaneously.

[Vinsk]

I see what you’re saying @Piz. It just appears to my non-professional eye that it could be position 5.5 from the sequence above. I assumed if this was a post showing ‘feel’ vs ‘real’ some may have this thought and not understand the point. 

[iacas]

@Vinsk have you gone completely mad? The left is what he felt the right is what he did. Look at his freaking shoulders man?!?!!!

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

@Vinsk have you gone completely mad? The left is what he felt the right is what he did. Look at his freaking shoulders man?!?!!!

Lol. I am. It just looks like two different positions with the left one being further down the sequence than the right. If Right Pic BH rotates his hips and brings his trail elbow towards his belly button it looks like he would achieve Left Pic BH...that’s all I’m saying.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Lol. I am. It just looks like two different positions with the left one being further down the sequence than the right. If Right Pic BH rotates his hips and brings his trail elbow towards his belly button it looks like he would achieve Left Pic BH...that’s all I’m saying.

Yeah, no.

He's showing the feel of "just opening up" or whatever in the left image, with the feeling that the arms just hang back and get whipped through, or something, and on the right is what he actually does.

You can't get to one of those positions from the other or vice versa. Not at golf swing speeds.

Left is feel, right is real.

[billchao]

7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

If Right Pic BH rotates his hips and brings his trail elbow towards his belly button it looks like he would achieve Left Pic BH...that’s all I’m saying.

Left pic Hogan the lead shoulder is way too high. If it was a real swing, he'd have to hit the ball off a tee... a baseball tee 

As @iacas mentioned, left pic is Hogan describing his swing feel, very different from his real swing on the right.

[Vinsk]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

You can't get to one of those positions from the other or vice versa. Not at golf swing speeds.

This. Ok...everything’s fine...nothing to see here...😆

[mvmac]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

He's showing the feel of "just opening up" or whatever in the left image, with the feeling that the arms just hang back and get whipped through, or something, and on the right is what he actually does.

You can't get to one of those positions from the other or vice versa. Not at golf swing speeds.

Left is feel, right is real.

Exactly.