My favorite Peter Kostis analysis

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Like I said, the old methods of analyzing the swing were inferior to the modern methods of face on with the player.  Kostis does this and his analysis is spot on.

Ok chief. @iacas, @mvmac and others have shown good examples of how Kostis demonstrated poor analysis. They have presented evidence to support their side. How about you show where you are (or have been) in awe of his brilliance. Show an example where Kostis analyzes a swing using current technology if you wish and nails it. Instead of being obtuse and embarrassingly dense, defend your side with some maturity and intelligence. FWIW I honestly believe you are clueless about golf mechanics and therefore have no argument other than having a difficult time admitting you've been wrong for a long time. Let it go chief.  It’s ok to be wrong. Enjoy the new found knowledge and improve yourself. 

[Missouri Swede]

2 hours ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Like I said, the old methods of analyzing the swing were inferior to the modern methods of face on with the player.  Kostis does this and his analysis is spot on.

So what time frames should we look for -- what's "old" in this context, and about when does the "recent" Kostis method start?

[chilepepper]

And here’s a guy, when he puts his glasses on, can see better

[RussUK]

15 hours ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

 

Someone picked the wrong example of analyzing.  Much better to see the current examples with the camera facing facing the player, not from behind.  You can see posture, grip, ball position, club coming into the ball, head position if they are dipping and follow through.  This is what Kostis does on a regular basis.

That wasnt the point of the post. @Lihuwas playing on the fact Kostis is 71, therefore what we see (clear) what he "sees" (blurry). It's what is often known as humour. And as i am short sighted, when i take my specs off its what i see too.

Not every post needs to be 100% serious.

[Veteran Golf Fan]

14 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Ok chief. @iacas, @mvmac and others have shown good examples of how Kostis demonstrated poor analysis. They have presented evidence to support their side. How about you show where you are (or have been) in awe of his brilliance. Show an example where Kostis analyzes a swing using current technology if you wish and nails it. Instead of being obtuse and embarrassingly dense, defend your side with some maturity and intelligence. FWIW I honestly believe you are clueless about golf mechanics and therefore have no argument other than having a difficult time admitting you've been wrong for a long time. Let it go chief.  It’s ok to be wrong. Enjoy the new found knowledge and improve yourself. 

Not sure where all your hate is coming from.  Are you Progressive by chance?  By the way, Youtube has numerous examples of Kostis analysis on numerous PGA pro's and it is all  good.  Increase your knowledge and stop being a hater.

21 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Jeez, just what the heck are they doing? 

So here is a good question I am sure someone on the blog will make a comment on.   Tiger has always swung very hard at the ball, often at 115-120 MPH on the driver.  Couple that with the excessive head dipping, all he had to be was just a fraction off on his strike being stuck to deliver some very off line tee shots.  Do I get at least an AMEN on that?  Kostis has pointed that out on more than one occasion.  Good thing Tiger finally addressed that at Hero and hopefully it will continue at Torrey.  He is still plenty long with far more control.

[nevets88]

12 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

21 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Jeez, just what the heck are they doing? 

So here is a good question I am sure someone on the blog will make a comment on.   Tiger has always swung very hard at the ball, often at 115-120 MPH on the driver.  Couple that with the excessive head dipping, all he had to be was just a fraction off on his strike being stuck to deliver some very off line tee shots.  Do I get at least an AMEN on that?  Kostis has pointed that out on more than one occasion.  Good thing Tiger finally addressed that at Hero and hopefully it will continue at Torrey.  He is still plenty long with far more control.

I meant that for analysts, and what they're doing when not devoting their time to the broadcast. I think @iacas was getting at they have a lot of free time to learn, observe and read and make themselves into the best analyst they can be and that their on-air analysis is commensurate to someone who does so.

[Veteran Golf Fan]

10 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I meant that for analysts, and what they're doing when not devoting their time to the broadcast. I think @iacas was getting at they have a lot of free time to learn, observe and read and make themselves into the best analyst they can be and that their on-air analysis is commensurate to someone who does so.

Players show up on Monday at most events, practice Tuesday, have a Pro-Am on Wednesday most weeks and then begin playing for real on Thursday.  Do you really believe the broadcast team does not see them prior to Thursday and only cherry pick a few holes to analyze them?  If you believe that, you are being pretty naïve.

[phillyk]

24 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

So here is a good question I am sure someone on the blog will make a comment on.   Tiger has always swung very hard at the ball, often at 115-120 MPH on the driver.  Couple that with the excessive head dipping, all he had to be was just a fraction off on his strike being stuck to deliver some very off line tee shots.  Do I get at least an AMEN on that?  Kostis has pointed that out on more than one occasion.

I'll take the bait.  He was #1 in the world for 683 weeks while swinging hard and "excessive head dipping."  Maybe more golfers should've tried it...

Seriously though, why are people obsessed with dissecting Tiger's swing back when he was on fire to the point that they try to find a fault?  The guy was the best in the world for a very long time.  Swing flaw or no swing flaw, it worked.  You can't sit back and say he could've done better had he not head dipped another inch or whatever, it makes no sense.

35 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Good thing Tiger finally addressed that at Hero and hopefully it will continue at Torrey.  He is still plenty long with far more control.

A lot of surgeries occurred between then and now.  His swing won't ever look the same as it did.

[nevets88]

10 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Players show up on Monday at most events, practice Tuesday, have a Pro-Am on Wednesday most weeks and then begin playing for real on Thursday.  Do you really believe the broadcast team does not see them prior to Thursday and only cherry pick a few holes to analyze them?  If you believe that, you are being pretty naïve.

  22 hours ago, iacas said:

• They don't work 4 of 7 days.
• They don't work every week.
• Even when they are working, they're on-air for, what, six hours?

They still go to dinner with people, even when they're working. They can still read on flights. They still sit in airports, or in cars, or have evenings at the hotel when they aren't phoning home.

I've been to a lot of PGA Tour events. You almost never see the talking heads wandering around on the practice range. Sometimes, but really rarely. Slightly less rarely, you'll see them on the putting green, but even then it's, to over-use the word… rare.

Johnny Miller still, AFAIK, charts out all of the greens and hole locations each day himself. That him doing so left an impression on me speaks to the work and prep some of the guys do. That should almost be a minimum level of prep. And maybe that is one of the reasons I don't slag on Johnny too much - he's one of the more likely ones to get out amongst the players before the round, even though he's aware of how he's sometimes perceived by them.

 

[Veteran Golf Fan]

9 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

  22 hours ago, iacas said:

• They don't work 4 of 7 days.
• They don't work every week.
• Even when they are working, they're on-air for, what, six hours?

They still go to dinner with people, even when they're working. They can still read on flights. They still sit in airports, or in cars, or have evenings at the hotel when they aren't phoning home.

I've been to a lot of PGA Tour events. You almost never see the talking heads wandering around on the practice range. Sometimes, but really rarely. Slightly less rarely, you'll see them on the putting green, but even then it's, to over-use the word… rare.

Johnny Miller still, AFAIK, charts out all of the greens and hole locations each day himself. That him doing so left an impression on me speaks to the work and prep some of the guys do. That should almost be a minimum level of prep. And maybe that is one of the reasons I don't slag on Johnny too much - he's one of the more likely ones to get out amongst the players before the round, even though he's aware of how he's sometimes perceived by them.

 

So if I understand you right, if a golf tournament is 4 rounds, you are saying they skip one of the rounds?

15 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I'll take the bait.  He was #1 in the world for 683 weeks while swinging hard and "excessive head dipping."  Maybe more golfers should've tried it...

Seriously though, why are people obsessed with dissecting Tiger's swing back when he was on fire to the point that they try to find a fault?  The guy was the best in the world for a very long time.  Swing flaw or no swing flaw, it worked.  You can't sit back and say he could've done better had he not head dipped another inch or whatever, it makes no sense.

A lot of surgeries occurred between then and now.  His swing won't ever look the same as it did.

We hope his current swing will be better. Certainly looked better at the Hero than it has in at least half a dozen years.  Let's hope he stays healthy and returns to elite status.

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Not sure where all your hate is coming from.  Are you Progressive by chance?

Out of line there.

56 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

By the way, Youtube has numerous examples of Kostis analysis on numerous PGA pro's and it is all  good.  Increase your knowledge and stop being a hater.

Find these awesome analyses. Please. Because we've seen several examples of HORRIBLE analyses by Peter Kostis. Where are the good ones?

Peter Kostis, btw, has never "increased my knowledge." Not everyone has very little knowledge to start with.

56 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Tiger has always swung very hard at the ball, often at 115-120 MPH on the driver.  Couple that with the excessive head dipping, all he had to be was just a fraction off on his strike being stuck to deliver some very off line tee shots.  Do I get at least an AMEN on that?  Kostis has pointed that out on more than one occasion. 

We have another topic for that discussion. It's right here:

Please post in the appropriate topic. If you continue to post off topic, you'll receive a warning.

To answer the question here, and only because I can't split a single post talking about two things, consider this: Tiger Woods is the best player of all time. He's always dipped. Sometimes more than others. Usually when he goes after a tee shot a bit more, or even a long iron… and he's hit some spectacular good shots in doing it.

People only point out the "dip" when he's playing poorly, or hits a poor shot, but nobody's actually studied this. In other words, nobody's measured the amount of dip he has with various clubs, rates the resulting shots, and has shown a correlation between amount of dipping and quality of shot. For all we know, and since he's always dipped, he'd average an "A" level shot across a wide range of head dipping measurements.

And perhaps, as we see from tens of other top-level PGA Tour pros, dipping is a good thing. Like @phillyk said… #1 for 683 weeks, 14 majors, etc.

Also… surprise surprise… he's still dipping.

And @Veteran Golf Fan, you don't get to respond to the Tiger dipping stuff here. Quote and respond in the other topic. This one's about Peter Kostis and his often horrible analyses. Analyses you've yet to defend at all. Saying "go find the good videos and gain some knowledge" is not a defense.

So again, to be clear: there will be no further posts on Tiger's head dipping here unless it's clearly more about Peter Kostis and his analyses. That's unlikely to be the case, so use the other topic for the Tiger head dipping "stuff," please.

28 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Players show up on Monday at most events, practice Tuesday, have a Pro-Am on Wednesday most weeks and then begin playing for real on Thursday.  Do you really believe the broadcast team does not see them prior to Thursday and only cherry pick a few holes to analyze them?  If you believe that, you are being pretty naïve.

How many times have you been to PGA Tour events, Monday through Sunday, walked inside the ropes, hung out in the media room with the very people you're talking about… etc.?

6 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

So if I understand you right, if a golf tournament is 4 rounds, you are saying they skip one of the rounds?

Sometimes when Golf Channel has weekend coverage, they aren't working Thursday and Friday, yes. They work two days: Saturday and Sunday, when their network has the coverage. This is often the case with Peter Kostis, seeing as how Golf Channel is an NBC property, and he works for CBS.

---

@Veteran Golf Fan, I'm starting to just think you're a troll. You don't actually answer the many things said in response to your posts. You're just here stirring stuff up, without actually defending or discussing your position.

[Veteran Golf Fan]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

Out of line there.

Find these awesome analyses. Please. Because we've seen several examples of HORRIBLE analyses by Peter Kostis. Where are the good ones?

Peter Kostis, btw, has never "increased my knowledge." Not everyone has very little knowledge to start with.

We have another topic for that discussion. It's right here:

Please post in the appropriate topic. If you continue to post off topic, you'll receive a warning.

To answer the question here, and only because I can't split a single post talking about two things, consider this: Tiger Woods is the best player of all time. He's always dipped. Sometimes more than others. Usually when he goes after a tee shot a bit more, or even a long iron… and he's hit some spectacular good shots in doing it.

People only point out the "dip" when he's playing poorly, or hits a poor shot, but nobody's actually studied this. In other words, nobody's measured the amount of dip he has with various clubs, rates the resulting shots, and has shown a correlation between amount of dipping and quality of shot. For all we know, and since he's always dipped, he'd average an "A" level shot across a wide range of head dipping measurements.

And perhaps, as we see from tens of other top-level PGA Tour pros, dipping is a good thing. Like @phillyk said… #1 for 683 weeks, 14 majors, etc.

Also… surprise surprise… he's still dipping.

And @Veteran Golf Fan, you don't get to respond to the Tiger dipping stuff here. Quote and respond in the other topic. This one's about Peter Kostis and his often horrible analyses. Analyses you've yet to defend at all. Saying "go find the good videos and gain some knowledge" is not a defense.

So again, to be clear: there will be no further posts on Tiger's head dipping here unless it's clearly more about Peter Kostis and his analyses. That's unlikely to be the case, so use the other topic for the Tiger head dipping "stuff," please.

How many times have you been to PGA Tour events, Monday through Sunday, walked inside the ropes, hung out in the media room with the very people you're talking about… etc.?

Sometimes when Golf Channel has weekend coverage, they aren't working Thursday and Friday, yes. They work two days: Saturday and Sunday, when their network has the coverage. This is often the case with Peter Kostis, seeing as how Golf Channel is an NBC property, and he works for CBS.

---

@Veteran Golf Fan, I'm starting to just think you're a troll. You don't actually answer the many things said in response to your posts. You're just here stirring stuff up, without actually defending or discussing your position.

I will try to delete your posts from now on so as not to offend you and your merry little band.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

I will try to delete your posts from now on so as not to offend you and your merry little band.

How about you simply actually respond to them, and the many points they contain (my posts, the posts of others, etc.)?

You're behaving more and more like a troll, and quickly depleting the benefit of the doubt we give to everyone.

You've not made a single defensible point in either of the two discussions.

[Vinsk]

13 hours ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Not sure where all your hate is coming from.  Are you Progressive by chance?  By the way, Youtube has numerous examples of Kostis analysis on numerous PGA pro's and it is all  good.  Increase your knowledge and stop being a hater.

Hate? Not at all. And I did increase my knowledge by viewing clear examples of PK giving poor swing analysis. Nobody here including myself has stated PK is always wrong. But that’s hardly a reason to claim him to be good as you do. Please explain in the examples where you believe @iacas is incorrect in his assessment of PK’s analysis. That’s all I’m asking. You’ve yet to make any good arguments defending your position. Look, you’ve been tolerated more here than you would any other forum. ‘Merry Band’? Really? You mean a large group of golf enthusiasts who are passionate about golf and appreciate good and truthful instruction? These guys here give free advice all the time. They’re dedicated people and you’re acting like a child. If you’re just trolling have your laugh and move on please. But it’d be much more beneficial to just respond with some good content to back your side which we’ve all been willing to discuss. Unfortunately you seem to not really care. 

 

[tdiii]

My thing with Kostis is that he will analyze a swing and sometimes say something like, "and that's why he missed left there."  And the reality, of course, is that he knew what had happened already.  Just once, I'd love to show him a swing -- from any angle he wanted -- and ask where the ball went.  Because I'm guessing he'd have no clue. 

[AlDena]

On 1/10/2018 at 1:21 PM, virtuoso said:

20 feet has nothing to do with it. Any kid 3 days out of Golfer's Career College would have identified Gay as having essentially zero hip rotation. Helen Keller could have done better.

Helen Keller? I don't know about that, I heard that she burned her fingers trying to read a hot waffle iron. 

[nevets88]

Arms not in front.

Now arms in front. But it's an iron. And a knock down. And he took more club.

 

[iacas]

Good comparison… The first one's just bad.