Paulsons tell me "throw away your camera!"

[xrayvizhen]

This shows how desperate I am (or was).

I was driving around recently and listening to PGA Tour Satellite Radio.  Carl and Dennis Paulson have one of the more entertaining and informative shows on that station and on Tuesdays they take calls from people with various problems and maladies and attempt, over the radio mind you, to fix their problems.  So I figured, “what the hell” so I called and within 5 minutes I was on!

I’ve recounted in a few threads here about my recent discovery that I was casting /releasing too soon/not enough lag…whatever it’s called and posting in the “My Swings” and “Instruction” sections.  I’ve been working on the problem and even signed up for 3 lessons at Golftec, with some small improvement.  On the radio, I gave Dennis and Carl a little background, the same that I’ve recounted on TST, how I looked at a videos of my swing and discovered, to my horror, despite my relatively decent scoring and improvement over the past year, that I was casting. Can you guess what their advice was? One of them, I don’t know if was Dennis or Carl, said “Hey man, throw away your camera!”

Their point was, I think, that there’s always going to be something that’s not right and as long as the ball’s going where I’m aiming, and I’m scoring well I shouldn’t drive myself nuts (which I am doing). And you know what? I’m starting to think they might be right. I have managed to make some improvements with short punch-shot like swings, narrowing the arc on the downswing and getting the grip to outrace the club-head to the ball at impact. It all works on the small swings, but not yet on the full so I’ll keep practicing but I think it will take lots and lots of work and if I’m on the course and I see that whatever I’ve been practicing is sending the ball off into the boonies, I’ll just revert back to my old swing.  

So what do you think of that advice? Do we drive ourselves crazy over-analyzing and over-thinking the golf swing? After all, there’s not much time from the top of the downswing to impact for more than one swing thought so in order to ingrain any significant changes, especially since I’ve been playing with essentially the same swing for the past 50 years, it just may not be possible to do much about the casting.

[Piz]

I spent 10 years as a pitching coach and one of the things I observed was a near pathological need, on the part of some coaches, to find something wrong with everything.  No two people look exactly the same when throwing a baseball, striking a golf ball, or sitting on the couch.  Differences in "frame geometry" dictate that there must be some measure of personal style, for lack of a better term, attendant to movement.  We can, for example, identify a person simply by the way they walk.  There is, in short, no Platonic Ideal.  Not saying one can neglect the basics; just that the basics come in a variety of flavors.

[klineka]

 

13 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

Can you guess what their advice was? One of them, I don’t know if was Dennis or Carl, said “Hey man, throw away your camera!”

I think that is terrible advice.

13 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

Their point was, I think, that there’s always going to be something that’s not right and as long as the ball’s going where I’m aiming, and I’m scoring well I shouldn’t drive myself nuts (which I am doing).

You might be scoring well, and if you are ok with your scores and arent looking to make significant improvements, then sure it might not be worth it to you to put in the amount of time and effort required to ingrain the new swing change and benefit from it. But if you want to have a better swing and ultimately score better as a result of the better swing, then I would recommend continuing to use the camera.

16 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

 but not yet on the full so I’ll keep practicing but I think it will take lots and lots of work and if I’m on the course and I see that whatever I’ve been practicing is sending the ball off into the boonies, I’ll just revert back to my old swing.  

So if you know it will take lots and lots of work and you acknowledge that its not fully ingrained yet, why would you revert back to your old swing? That would delay the progress you've been making just to score decent that day. Not worth it IMO. 

19 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

After all, there’s not much time from the top of the downswing to impact for more than one swing thought so in order to ingrain any significant changes

This is the exact reason why you need video. The golf swing happens entirely too fast for you to feel what is going on and to know for certain if you did something correct or not. Sure you can feel some things throughout the swing, but I believe you would be slowing your progress down if you stopped using video. If you dont want to progress and just enjoy playing at your current skill level, then sure, throw the camera away. I have multiple friends that have never recorded their swing in their entire lives and still play bogey golf, but they are ok with that and dont want to spend the time and effort to get better. Nothing wrong with that. 

23 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

especially since I’ve been playing with essentially the same swing for the past 50 years, it just may not be possible to do much about the casting.

I dont believe this is a true statement. It might take you longer to make a certain swing change since you have done thousands and thousands of more reps that a teenager who just started playing 2 years ago, but I think with the right practice and video review anyone can fix any swing flaw (assuming there isnt a physical limitation that is preventing them from making said change)

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

One of them, I don’t know if was Dennis or Carl, said “Hey man, throw away your camera!”

Yeah, why use something that's a tool to help you improve?

Can you nit-pick and use a camera incorrectly? Yes.

The trick? Use the camera the right way. Use it to measure and verify. Find your ONE priority piece, and work on that. Use the camera to see what feels produce what mechanics, and to measure and/or verify…

It's pretty simple.

---

I use a camera in every lesson. Heck, sometimes I use it to take a photo of someone's set up when putting, because I ask them to do something they think feels "weird," but when they see it in a photo - they see what "real" is - they buy in and get it. They commit to setting up that way because it is clearly the right way, despite how it may feel at first.

[Lihu]

53 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

This shows how desperate I am (or was).

I was driving around recently and listening to PGA Tour Satellite Radio.  Carl and Dennis Paulson have one of the more entertaining and informative shows on that station and on Tuesdays they take calls from people with various problems and maladies and attempt, over the radio mind you, to fix their problems.  So I figured, “what the hell” so I called and within 5 minutes I was on!

I’ve recounted in a few threads here about my recent discovery that I was casting /releasing too soon/not enough lag…whatever it’s called and posting in the “My Swings” and “Instruction” sections.  I’ve been working on the problem and even signed up for 3 lessons at Golftec, with some small improvement.  On the radio, I gave Dennis and Carl a little background, the same that I’ve recounted on TST, how I looked at a videos of my swing and discovered, to my horror, despite my relatively decent scoring and improvement over the past year, that I was casting. Can you guess what their advice was? One of them, I don’t know if was Dennis or Carl, said “Hey man, throw away your camera!”

Their point was, I think, that there’s always going to be something that’s not right and as long as the ball’s going where I’m aiming, and I’m scoring well I shouldn’t drive myself nuts (which I am doing). And you know what? I’m starting to think they might be right. I have managed to make some improvements with short punch-shot like swings, narrowing the arc on the downswing and getting the grip to outrace the club-head to the ball at impact. It all works on the small swings, but not yet on the full so I’ll keep practicing but I think it will take lots and lots of work and if I’m on the course and I see that whatever I’ve been practicing is sending the ball off into the boonies, I’ll just revert back to my old swing.  

So what do you think of that advice? Do we drive ourselves crazy over-analyzing and over-thinking the golf swing? After all, there’s not much time from the top of the downswing to impact for more than one swing thought so in order to ingrain any significant changes, especially since I’ve been playing with essentially the same swing for the past 50 years, it just may not be possible to do much about the casting.

I'd be the last person to give advice, but you've played really good golf for quite some years. So, I apologize for this post:

I didn't think you'd spend that much time, money and frustration trying to fix it.

Note that I had a similar experience just last week. My instructor (now previous instructor, as he quit the business) told me is that the reason I hit so high is that I setup the ball too far forward and I almost have to flip to hit the ball. I don't cast since I hold a lot of lag these days, but according to him and the videos my son takes it's really close to flipping. So, I moved the ball back in my stance and suddenly got a much lower and more penetrating shot. This added some distance to my strikes which you can see landing a lot farther, even though my Mevo didn't seem to think so. 

So, the reason I noted my own experience above is that I noticed in your FO video that you also setup the ball pretty far forward in your stance. This might or might not be your answer?

If you suffer from distance loss, then I'd work on fixing it. Otherwise, if you're happy with your game, I'd just take Paulson's advice and throw away the camera.

A little off this topic, is it even possible for someone playing for more than 10 years, say, to make changes to their swings? Seems like an astronomical task. Unless, you're like a dancer who has to learn subtle and not so subtle new movements all the time?

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

A little off this topic, is it even possible for someone playing for more than 10 years, say, to make changes to their swings? Seems like an astronomical task. Unless, you're like a dancer who has to learn subtle and not so subtle new movements all the time?

With enough time and repetitions, yes. Tiger has changed his swing multiple times I believe. Most average people that work 40+ hours a week plus have a family and other commitments would take a significantly longer amount of time to make a swing change compared to a pro who can spend hours each day working on the swing change. 

[Mr. Desmond]

The camera has its time and use - during a lesson, at the range. Work on a piece at a time. You've got to walk before you run.

When you play golf, play golf, not golf swing, unless you don't want to keep score. I found myself finding real weaknesses in my game once I began playing more. And then I focused on one issue at a time and took lessons.

If you're playing by yourself or with someone else and there is no rush, and you don't want to keep score, tell your partner what you're doing, put a few balls down and practice what you're working on as long as you don't interfere with another player's game.

[AlDena]

Ok, I threw away my camera, unfortunately it was attached to my cell phone. I'd call someone who gives a hoot, but my pockets are empty. Now what?

[Patch]

At this stage of your journey, I'd say they gave you some good advice. 

Go with what you have for now. Once comfortable with it, move on to improving on what you already have. There is always time for the camera, and what ever your next learning focus might be later on. 

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, Patch said:

At this stage of your journey, I'd say they gave you some good advice. 

Go with what you have for now. Once comfortable with it, move on to improving on what you already have. There is always time for the camera, and what ever your next learning focus might be later on. 

That's what he's doing right now - working on "next step." The camera is useful for that.

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

On the radio, I gave Dennis and Carl a little background, the same that I’ve recounted on TST, how I looked at a videos of my swing and discovered, to my horror, despite my relatively decent scoring and improvement over the past year, that I was casting. Can you guess what their advice was? One of them, I don’t know if was Dennis or Carl, said “Hey man, throw away your camera!”

This is the part that presents a problem, in my view.  I've been playing for almost 50 years, and I am absolutely NOT competent to look at any video, diagnose a swing issue, and recommend the first step towards improving.  I'm particularly unable to diagnose issues in my own swing.  So from that standpoint, stop analyzing your own swing video, its a near-certainty that you're not competent either.

However, through TST, I do have a single thing I need to work on, and I can review my own video to evaluate my success in making that one specific change.  So I'd say you shouldn't throw away your camera, but you should use it  in a very limited way, to verify that you're making the change that a good instructor has recommended.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

However, through TST, I do have a single thing I need to work on, and I can review my own video to evaluate my success in making that one specific change.  So I'd say you shouldn't throw away your camera, but you should use it  in a very limited way, to verify that you're making the change that a good instructor has recommended.

Right… so does he.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

Can you guess what their advice was? One of them, I don’t know if was Dennis or Carl, said “Hey man, throw away your camera!”

As general advice, I think it's terrible. The camera is a valuable tool for the golf swing.

Can a person get caught up nit-picking minor things? Absolutely, but that's not the fault of the camera. As the golfer, you need to learn to filter out that noise and focus on what's important.

Without the camera, you'd never really be able to tell if you've corrected the problem or changed the picture. The ballflight won't tell you; a flip can be timed well to produce quality shots, but the misses will still be there.

2 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

Their point was, I think, that there’s always going to be something that’s not right and as long as the ball’s going where I’m aiming, and I’m scoring well I shouldn’t drive myself nuts (which I am doing).

Making changes is hard. I ask people this all the time when they get frustrated: What are you looking to get out of the game? If you are happy where you are at, then why frustrate yourself over this? Just play the game and enjoy it.

Constantly trying to improve one's swing is not for everyone. I know people who have played to a 20 over two, even three decades. They still enjoy it. Are they frustrated when they hit a bad shot? Sure they are, but from speaking with very good golfers I know, that doesn't change as you improve. You're still going to happy when you shoot a low score and upset when you shoot a high score relative to your index.

If you are OK with your play and you're fine with it, nobody is going to think less of you for not working on your swing.

[nevets88]

Part of me thinks this is hyperbolic much for "good" radio? I mean, smart use of camera great for steady improvement makes for boring radio?

[Mr. Desmond]

Guess we should all have a radio show. We're giving better advice than former touring pros... 

I ran into one of the Paulsons (I believe it was Dennis) at the Byron Nelson one year as he was walking up to a tee with an odd location and the marshals failed to guide the crowd - lack of ropes. He was giving some of us a very condescending look and uttered something that was, ahem, impolite. It happens.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mr. Desmond

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Guess we should all have a radio show. We're giving better advice than former touring pros... 

Whether you said that in a snarky way or not (I'll assume not), you're correct here. We are.

It's not uncommon.

[JonMA1]

2 hours ago, klineka said:

You might be scoring well, and if you are ok with your scores and arent looking to make significant improvements, then sure it might not be worth it to you to put in the amount of time and effort required to ingrain the new swing change and benefit from it. But if you want to have a better swing and ultimately score better as a result of the better swing, then I would recommend continuing to use the camera.

I think this sums it up pretty well. And yeah, every year I go through the cycle of "why the #!^@ do and I even bother" and "I might as well try to improve a little".

I can't really speak for others, but my approach should be a balance of enjoying the game at my current skill level and putting a bit of effort and interest into trying to improve - even if it's just a bit.

As far as improving on my own, recording my swing and trying to "hit" certain positions might not be the best method. But that's because I'm not a teaching pro and I know little about correct mechanics and what to look for. And even if I did know what to look for, spotting a fault on video and fixing it correctly are two very different things.

I'll never get to the level of golf that most folks will. So when I play against someone with a horrible backward hip slide but who scores about as low as I can ever hope for, the thought comes to mind of just getting as good as I can by compensating for my faults. It works for a lot of folks who are better than I'll ever be.

The thing is, using a camera doesn't cost me anything. I have all winter to play around with it and if it helps shave a single stroke off my game the following year, I'll take it.

[Mr. Desmond]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Whether you said that in a snarky way or not (I'll assume not), you're correct here. We are.

It's not uncommon.

Oh, no, staying positive -- looking at the thread, great advice all around. But I guess to generate callers and interest, one has to make some "shock jock" statements, and "throw away the camera," while entertaining, is poor advice.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mr. Desmond