USGA/R&A Finalize 2019 Rules of Golf

[Zeph]

1 hour ago, Rulesman said:

How do you determine who is 'away' when the other player is on the far side of the fairway of a dogleg?

 

With the new rules encouraging "prompt play", that shouldn't be an issue. 

[Rulesman]

16 minutes ago, Zeph said:

 

With the new rules encouraging "prompt play", that shouldn't be an issue. 

It could be a factor in match play.

[Fourputt]

7 hours ago, Rulesman said:

 

How do you determine who is 'away' when the other player is on the far side of the fairway of a dogleg?

Who's away is irrelevant except in match play, and since that format is so rarely played on this side of the pond, players just go by whoever is ready to hit.  Establishing that cone is going to be awkward in many situations.  If the wide end results in a fairway point considerably separated from the reference point, it will almost require the use of a DMD of some sort to make an accurate drop near the minimal distance from the hole.  I've watched players estimate distance from a course marker when the ball is 30 or 40 yards away from it, and it makes one realize that golfers can't see or estimate an arc worth a damn.  With DMD's the issue is not as common, but there are still lots of players who don't use one.

[MuniGrit]

6 hours ago, Rulesman said:

It could be a factor in match play.

Match play plays quicker anyway.

[VOX]

On 3/18/2018 at 1:17 PM, Fourputt said:

Who's away is irrelevant except in match play, and since that format is so rarely played on this side of the pond, players just go by whoever is ready to hit.  Establishing that cone is going to be awkward in many situations.  If the wide end results in a fairway point considerably separated from the reference point, it will almost require the use of a DMD of some sort to make an accurate drop near the minimal distance from the hole.  I've watched players estimate distance from a course marker when the ball is 30 or 40 yards away from it, and it makes one realize that golfers can't see or estimate an arc worth a damn.  With DMD's the issue is not as common, but there are still lots of players who don't use one.

Interesting I have seen numerous articles that outside of the professional tour the vast majority of play in the US is still match play. Nassau, skins, better-ball etc. Match play or stable ford is probably most common outside of the US.

Edited March 20, 2018 by VOX

[Fourputt]

8 hours ago, VOX said:

Interesting I have seen numerous articles that outside of the professional tour the vast majority of play in the US is still match play. Nassau, skins, better-ball etc. Match play or stable ford is probably most common outside of the US.

In my 40+ years playing golf, almost the only times I've been involved in match play was in men's club match brackets, or when playing with my brother.  I've played lots of skins and better ball competitions but they were almost always stroke format.  Most Nassau wagers I've played have also been stroke. 

Most of the people I've played with want to know the total strokes... holes won or lost doesn't provide any quantitative information about one's game except as it compares to the opponent of the moment.  Even playing in men's club matches we are still required to post 18 hole scores for handicap.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Fourputt

[Rulesman]

How many other games do not consider beating the opponent as the key requirement.

Imagine tennis being decided on which player in a 5 day competition hit the ball the fewest times.

Head to head is real competition. Last man standing.

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, Rulesman said:

How many other games do not consider beating the opponent as the key requirement.

Imagine tennis being decided on which player in a 5 day competition hit the ball the fewest times.

Head to head is real competition. Last man standing.

Curling comes to mind...but then again...never mind...nobody minds curling..

[VOX]

5 hours ago, Fourputt said:

In my 40+ years playing golf, almost the only times I've been involved in match play was in men's club match brackets, or when playing with my brother.  I've played lots of skins and better ball competitions but they were almost always stroke format.  Most Nassau wagers I've played have also been stroke. 

Most of the people I've played with want to know the total strokes... holes won or lost doesn't provide any quantitative information about one's game except as it compares to the opponent of the moment.  Even playing in men's club matches we are still required to post 18 hole scores for handicap.

I have about 30 years with precisely the opposite experience. I play about 10 member/guest tournements per year at different clubs. 9 out of 10 will be bracket style four-ball match play and one will be a Ryder cup mixture. Most of the stroke play events I come across are one day lunch plus golf informal/fun affairs. How do you play a stroke play skins game?

Edited March 21, 2018 by VOX

[Fourputt]

4 hours ago, VOX said:

I have about 30 years with precisely the opposite experience. I play about 10 member/guest tournements per year at different clubs. 9 out of 10 will be bracket style four-ball match play and one will be a Ryder cup mixture. Most of the stroke play events I come across are one day lunch plus golf informal/fun affairs. How do you play a stroke play skins game?

We even play skins by flight in club stroke tournaments as a side pot.  if you have the single lowest score on any hole among the players in your flight, you get a percentage of the total money in the pot, based on the total number of skins in the flight.  Say your 2 on the 7th hole is the only 2 on that hole in your flight, that gets you a share.  If there are only 3 other skins out for the other 17 holes, each player gets 25% of the pot. 

In a single group, you basically match scores for skins, but with carryovers, it's a bit off from straight match play, since you can win skins from 4 or 5 tied holes by winning a single hole.  You can't win 4 or 5 holes by winning a single hole in match play.  Since we usually have other side bets going as well, the stroke score still counts.

[Missouri Swede]

Watching the Zurich Classic from yesterday (Friday’s round), it sounds like the announcers are still a bit unclear about the status of the new rules.

As Horschel was taking a drop on the 14th hole, Nobilo said it was "a good example ... if they do change that rule, you’ll be able to just sort of place the ball …”

The other commentator (Byrum, I think)  said, “knee high, I’ve heard now …. they discussed being able to drop it from any level, basically, but I’m hearing they’re going to go with knee high eventually.”

(Emphases mine.)

Sounds like they don’t know for sure that the rules have been published and are set to be implemented next January—as if they’re still up for commentary/feedback.  (Unless Byrum was just trying to be uber-polite on the air about Nobilo not knowing the new rule.)

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

Sounds like they don’t know for sure that the rules have been published and are set to be implemented next January—as if they’re still up for commentary/feedback.  (Unless Byrum was just trying to be uber-polite on the air about Nobilo not knowing the new rule.)

The latter is probably the way. It's important that they not throw people under the bus or disagree. Even when someone disagrees, they try to phrase it very, very politely.

[Vancanh]

I think this is one of those things that new golfers missed the most

[bkuehn1952]

A side issue with "flagstick in" will be retrieving the ball once holed.  I was playing a casual round and decided to play the new rule of flagstick in or out as the player's choice.  I holed a 5 foot putt and went to retrieve the ball.  I don't have particularly large hands and could mostly pull the ball out of the hole without contacting the sides of the hole.  Still, I did hit the edge of the hole once or twice with the flag in as it can be a bit of a tight fit.  I imagined a days worth of "large handed" people reaching into the hole with the flag in.   The darn thing will become a funnel or a volcano  with all that hand contact.

Yes, one can carefully retrieve the ball.  I suspect most times the person reaching in may not be so circumspect.

[Carl3]

31 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

A side issue with "flagstick in" will be retrieving the ball once holed.  I was playing a casual round and decided to play the new rule of flagstick in or out as the player's choice.  I holed a 5 foot putt and went to retrieve the ball.  I don't have particularly large hands and could mostly pull the ball out of the hole without contacting the sides of the hole.  Still, I did hit the edge of the hole once or twice with the flag in as it can be a bit of a tight fit.  I imagined a days worth of "large handed" people reaching into the hole with the flag in.   The darn thing will become a funnel or a volcano  with all that hand contact.

Yes, one can carefully retrieve the ball.  I suspect most times the person reaching in may not be so circumspect.

I just yank the flag stick out and the ball pops out with it. I have never noticed where this could have detrimental effects on the hole. Am I a rube or what? I always wondered why the pros stick their hands down there so dramatically as if they are David Blaine performing a magic trick. Enlighten me.

[Patch]

I, and others have played with the flag stick in, and will continue to do so in non sanctioned events. 

What we have always done was to lift the flag stick out, which also brought the ball out too. After replacing the stick we just picked the ball up off the green. Some of us have putters that allow us to scoop the ball off the green, letting it fly in the air, and catching the ball in our other hand. nbd......

[Fourputt]

Yep.  I usually just remove the flagstick before reaching in for the ball.

[bkuehn1952]

I have seen people yank the flagstick up with the ball in the hole and the ball wedges into the liner and pulls that up, too, kind of like when the flagstick catches in the liner's hole. 

If one carefully removes the flagstick, the ball invariably stays in the hole.  Now one is juggling the putter and flag while reaching into the hole.

Some will invariably copy the pros, "as if they are David Blaine performing a magic trick."

Of course, we will still have the guys who jam their putter head in the hole and scoop the ball out.

I play muni's and public courses and some of the holes get pretty beat up by all of us performing variations on removing the ball.  A lot of the damage has nothing to do with reaching in with the flagstick still in place.  Still, I suspect that the proposed new Rule will increase the opportunity for we players to subject the hole to wear & tear.