USGA/R&A Finalize 2019 Rules of Golf

[Zeph]

I would be surprised if the rules didn't allow you to drop from wherever the arms would naturally hang, without having to bend the knees or back. If anything, it makes your drop less predictable, so it's not an advantage.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Rulesman said:

It's the not informing fellow competitors that you're going to mark and lift your ball.

I don't remember it every time because it almost never occurs now. And maybe it won't suddenly spike in occurrences. But I don't like the idea of people putting their hands on the ball as often as this would allow.

43 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

Im just surprised as their paper on the topic from 2016 seemed strongly adamant no solution could actually be done well in practise, that it required too much guesswork on where the ball ended up and other considerations.

Yeah, particularly when a ball is lost, people really often have no idea where it is… but that's why it's more of a solution for leagues and casual play. And you're taking two strokes, so consider the math:

• If you hit a decent tee shot that's pretty far up there, you're hitting four.
• If you hit a horrible tee shot, to where you probably can't even reach the green with your next tee shot… you may just be better off hitting a provisional. So you can hit four from a position where you can reach the green.

But either way, you've gotta hole out for par, basically.

43 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

Im just really curious how this and other rules discussions happened. Would have been interesting to listen in on. I mean, I legit wanted a change, but their own paper kind of convinced me there wasnt a great solution.

Just a bunch of guys in a room, email, phone conversations. From the R&A and the USGA. They listen to and collate and collect the feedback.

43 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

-I dislike the knee drop, as I legit know older folks who might hurt from this. Does it also specify knee position? Does it have to be a straight knee or squatted position?

Did you download the Rules?

Quote

“Knee height” means the height of the player’s knee when in a standing position.

I noted the bit about older people, too. I suspect nobody will care too much if they make an effort and bend over a little. Some will say they have to bend over to get the ball out of the hole, but a lot of older people have the putter suction cups or whatever.

43 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

-For new stroke and distance.....if your ball is lost in the middle of the fairway, would you do the cone shape to the edge of the fairway and drop there?

I'm not sure. I think what you said sounds likely.

13 minutes ago, Zeph said:

I would be surprised if the rules didn't allow you to drop from wherever the arms would naturally hang, without having to bend the knees or back. If anything, it makes your drop less predictable, so it's not an advantage.

I'm not sure what you mean. The rules are out. It's knee height in 2019.

[cutchemist42]

Posted this on my FB status btw last night (have about 8, 3-rounds/month friends)....and had 2 friends already say "so now we are shooting 3 from the fairway after a lost ball?" and "is the 1 stroke variation the same as the 2 stroke?".

They love the help, but I think like them, lots will continue saying its 3 from the fairway vs the correct 4.

One guy has also said he might still putt without the flag until he sees something to change his mind like others holing more putts. I could see him coming around to keeping it in.

[colin007]

I'm totally leaving the flag stick in on everything now

[billchao]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Yeah, particularly when a ball is lost, people really often have no idea where it is… but that's why it's more of a solution for leagues and casual play. And you're taking two strokes, so consider the math:

• If you hit a decent tee shot that's pretty far up there, you're hitting four.
• If you hit a horrible tee shot, to where you probably can't even reach the green with your next tee shot… you may just be better off hitting a provisional. So you can hit four from a position where you can reach the green.

But either way, you've gotta hole out for par, basically.

This is why I'm ok with the rule, even if it means being able to drop away from a group or trees or whatever.

Say your good tee shot leaves you 150 from the center of the green, right down the middle of the fairway. Your off-line bad tee shot will probably leave you 30 yards back or more, from an angle. You're probably better off in most circumstances just to hit a provisional.

1 hour ago, cutchemist42 said:

"so now we are shooting 3 from the fairway after a lost ball?"

People do that already 

I think the people who are conscientious about the rules will get it right fairly quickly.

30 minutes ago, colin007 said:

I'm totally leaving the flag stick in on everything now

That's my thought precisely, if by now you mean next year 

I'm not going to pull the stick unless someone wants it out, but I'm probably not going to bother to put it back in for myself, either.

[colin007]

34 minutes ago, billchao said:

 

That's my thought precisely, if by now you mean next year 

Lol yes...I mean, when I play by myself I never take it out, but next year I'll be leaving it in every time.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, cutchemist42 said:

They love the help, but I think like them, lots will continue saying its 3 from the fairway vs the correct 4.

How is that the fault of the USGA/R&A?

Just point out to them how they lie three, not two, and move on.

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

I'm totally leaving the flag stick in on everything now

May as well. That's the only way it'll actually speed up play.

I hate the flagstick rule, and wish that if they were going to change it, they simply made it a requirement that the flagstick always be left in, and define the maximum diameter, and make them fixed in the cups rather than removable.

At least that would actually speed up play.

32 minutes ago, billchao said:

I'm not going to pull the stick unless someone wants it out, but I'm probably not going to bother to put it back in for myself, either.

There will be times that I will.

[deekay]

How would the lost ball/OB rule apply in the case of a ball flying over a green which is at the boundary of the course, and then being lost/OB on the far side of the green.

The penalty drop would then be closer to the hole? Or would you have no other choice but to replay the shot?

 

[DaveP043]

3 hours ago, deekay said:

How would the lost ball/OB rule apply in the case of a ball flying over a green which is at the boundary of the course, and then being lost/OB on the far side of the green.

The penalty drop would then be closer to the hole? Or would you have no other choice but to replay the shot?

Its quite possible that your only option is to replay the shot.  The same thing could happen for a lateral water hazard (or penalty area in 2019) as well, particularly behind a green.

[cutchemist42]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Its quite possible that your only option is to replay the shot.  The same thing could happen for a lateral water hazard (or penalty area in 2019) as well, particularly behind a green.

Yeah thats what I was thinking too, so the rule doesnt 100% remove the need to walk back to the last position and shoot again.

[Rulesman]

I can't see anything that requires the player to go back to the last position.

Text of Model Local Rule

“When a player’s ball cannot be found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds, the player may proceed as follows rather than proceeding under stroke and distance.

For two penalty strokes, the player may take relief by dropping the original ball or a substituted ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball:

• Is estimated to have come to rest on the course, or
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

Size of Relief Area Based on Reference Points: Anywhere between:

• A line from the hole through the ball reference point (or within two club-lengths to the outside of that line), and
• A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (or within two clublengths to the outside of that line).        

   But with these limits:

Limits on Location of Relief Area:

• Must be in the general area, and
• Must not be nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

But, the player may not use this option when:

• The ball is known or virtually certain to have come to rest in a penalty area, or
• The player has played another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 18.3).”

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Rulesman

[iacas]

Golf Channel keeps saying in their scroll “knew height or higher” but I’m pretty sure (I’m out right now) that the PDF of the Rules didn’t say “or higher.”

Can anyone confirm? I can look later but it’ll be this evening.

[Zeph]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Golf Channel keeps saying in their scroll “knew height or higher” but I’m pretty sure (I’m out right now) that the PDF of the Rules didn’t say “or higher.”

Can anyone confirm? I can look later but it’ll be this evening.

I can't find anywhere on USGA's websites or in the PDF where it says "or higher". On the web, I find it said by GC and some English papers.

Can't find it on R&A sites either. In the "Rules of Golf for 2019“ with all the rules, it says:

Quote

(2) Ball Must Be Dropped Straight Down from Knee Height Without Touching Player or 
Equipment. The player must let go of the ball from a location at knee height so that the ball: 
• Falls straight down, without the player throwing, spinning or rolling it or using any 
other motion that might affect where the ball will come to rest, and
• Does not touch any part of the player’s body or equipment before it hits the ground. 
“Knee height” means the height of the player’s knee when in a standing position.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Zeph

[DaveP043]

I can see a little room for abuse in the new dropping procedure.  Before, as long as you dropped the ball inside a specific area, it could roll 2 clublengths, even if it ended up outside the initial acceptable drop area.  It wasn't always possible to find a place where the ball would roll forward, or roll too far, in order to be able to place the ball.

With the new rule, you can drop it at the edge of the relief area, and if it rolls outside the relief area twice, you place it.  The distance from the impact point inside the relief area to where the ball ends up can be pretty small, and still require a re-drop and then placing the ball.  I can see players dropping at the "downhill" edge of the relief area, and ending up placing the ball more often than was previously possible.  

On one hand, the new procedures keep the ball closer to "the spot", it can't roll an extra 7 feet away.  On the other, the players may be able to place it more often.

[VOX]

I play often in the early morning when there is a lot of dew. If a caddie touches the line of putt (often with the end of the flag stick), it leaves a visible mark that can be used as an aim point. I assume this will not be allowed since it creates and advantage?

Edited March 15, 2018 by VOX

[Rulesman]

8.1a. Actions That Are Not Allowed
Except in the limited ways allowed in Rules 8.1b, c and d, a player must not take any of these actions if they improve the conditions affecting the stroke:

(5) Remove dew, frost or water.

This might also apply

8.3b. Prohibited Actions to Alter Other Physical Conditions
A player must not deliberately take any of the actions listed in Rule 8.1a (except as allowed in Rule 8.1b, c or d) to:

Alter any other physical conditions to affect:
 Where another player’s ball might go or come to rest after that player’s next stroke or a later stroke, 

 

[Zeph]

7 hours ago, VOX said:

I play often in the early morning when there is a lot of dew. If a caddie touches the line of putt (often with the end of the flag stick), it leaves a visible mark that can be used as an aim point. I assume this will not be allowed since it creates and advantage?

 

Correct, not allowed.

Quote

8-2b/0.5Meaning of "Indicating Line of Putt" and "Placing of Mark for Purpose of Indicating Line of Putt" in Rule 8-2b

Q.
Rule 8-2b allows a player to have the line of putt indicated to him by his partner or either of their caddies. However, the putting green must not be touched nor may a mark be placed anywhere for the purpose of indicating the line of putt.

 

For example, the following actions are not a breach of Rule 8-2b:

 

• Prior to a player playing from the putting green, his caddie points to but does not touch a repaired ball-mark on the line of putt that the player should use as an aiming point.

• As a player is preparing to play from the putting green, his partner tells him to aim at the edge of a sprinkler head (i.e. a fixed object) that is located behind the green. However, the following are examples of actions that would be a breach of Rule 8-2b:

• Prior to a player playing from the putting green, his caddie touches the putting green with the flagstick behind and to the right of the hole to indicate the point where the player should aim his putt.

 

[Rulesman]

20 minutes ago, Zeph said:

 

Correct, not allowed.

 

You are quoting from the current rules/decisions. The question relates to the 2019 rules.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Rulesman